Redline 5w50

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by dparm

Mixing oils is totally fine. Red Line, Motul, and others even recommend you do it if you need some sort of custom viscosity. As long as the chemistries are similar (e.g. Motul 300V 5w40 + Motul 300V 20w60), you're fine. I wouldn't make it a habit of doing oil cocktails of Mobil 1 + Castrol + Renewable Lube + Motul, etc.

For API certification, it's actually a requirement that the oil be mixable with other API oils.

hmm.. why not just use two different oil weights during each season?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

hmm.. why not just use two different oil weights during each season?

You can do that if you want. The most commonly cited reason I see why people mix oil is because they want to hit a specific viscosity. An extreme example would be that you want a 0w40 but can only get 0w20 and 0w50, so you end up using mostly 0w50 with a quart of 0w20 to thin it out to a 0w40.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by dparm

You can do that if you want. The most commonly cited reason I see why people mix oil is because they want to hit a specific viscosity. An extreme example would be that you want a 0w40 but can only get 0w20 and 0w50, so you end up using mostly 0w50 with a quart of 0w20 to thin it out to a 0w40.

I think 0w40 is too thin for a BMW, let alone an M car. I use 5w40 in my N52 with good results.

shell rotella t6 is excellent on cold starts for a 5w40 weight.

what do you run in your m3? how does 10w60 fare in the winter? i imagine not so well..?

how about 5w40 for the winter? any ideas?
i am skeptical of 0w40 for M cars especially because someone on this forum mentioned they had to replace their rod bearings while using this weight. I dont think it provides the necessary protection.

people always tell me that a 0w40 and 5w40 act the same at operating temp, but I dont think its true. yes, the W stands for winter weight, but if one oil is physically thinner then the other, I dont think they will act the same being broken down at full operating temperature. an engine will always run quieter and smoother once warmed up with a 5w VS 0w.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

I think 0w40 is too thin for a BMW, let alone an M car. I use 5w40 in my N52 with good results.

shell rotella t6 is excellent on cold starts for a 5w40 weight.

what do you run in your m3? how does 10w60 fare in the winter? i imagine not so well..?

how about 5w40 for the winter? any ideas?
i am skeptical of 0w40 for M cars especially because someone on this forum mentioned they had to replace their rod bearings while using this weight. I dont think it provides the necessary protection.

people always tell me that a 0w40 and 5w40 act the same at operating temp, but I dont think its true. yes, the W stands for winter weight, but if one oil is physically thinner then the other, I dont think they will act the same being broken down at full operating temperature. an engine will always run quieter and smoother once warmed up with a 5w VS 0w.

I'm not sure why you think 0w40 is too thin for a BMW. If you are concerned about that viscosity, don't use it. Just because one person had an engine problem while using this oil doesn't mean it was the cause of the problem, nor does it mean it's the wrong viscosity.

10w60 is fine in the winter. BMW thoroughly tests the cars in extreme cold and has spec'd 10w60 accordingly. There are thousands of M3s that have used (and still are using) 10w60 in the winter with zero issues. Remember that for decades, cars ran 15w40 or 10w40 year round. Big rigs often run 15w40. I know that those don't have an S65 motor, but it goes to show that BMW specifying such a weight for winter use is not totally absurd.

0w40 and 5w40 are the same at operating temperature, hence the "40" on the end. That is literally the definition for this numbering scheme. If they were not the same at operating temperture, the last two digits would be different. Read up on non-Newtonian fluids if you don't understand the concept of the viscosity-temperature relationship being non-linear.

Speaking generally here, there are so many absurd myths about oil that it just makes me cringe. There is no big secret to this stuff, it's all basic physics and you find countless resources that explain it. People need to stop going off of rumors, conjecture, and anecdotal evidence.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by dparm

I'm not sure why you think 0w40 is too thin for a BMW. If you are concerned about that viscosity, don't use it. Just because one person had an engine problem while using this oil doesn't mean it was the cause of the problem, nor does it mean it's the wrong viscosity.

10w60 is fine in the winter. BMW thoroughly tests the cars in extreme cold and has spec'd 10w60 accordingly. There are thousands of M3s that have used (and still are using) 10w60 in the winter with zero issues. Remember that for decades, cars ran 15w40 or 10w40 year round. Big rigs often run 15w40. I know that those don't have an S65 motor, but it goes to show that BMW specifying such a weight for winter use is not totally absurd.

0w40 and 5w40 are the same at operating temperature, hence the "40" on the end. That is literally the definition for this numbering scheme. If they were not the same at operating temperture, the last two digits would be different. Read up on non-Newtonian fluids if you don't understand the concept of the viscosity-temperature relationship being non-linear.

Speaking generally here, there are so many absurd myths about oil that it just makes me cringe. There is no big secret to this stuff, it's all basic physics and you find countless resources that explain it. People need to stop going off of rumors, conjecture, and anecdotal evidence.

but if BMW spec's 10w60, why would one use something specifically not specified by the manfacturer? as if they know better. it doesnt make any sense.

[bimmerfrk]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

but if BMW spec's 10w60, why would one use something specifically not specified by the manfacturer? as if they know better. it doesnt make any sense.

Because if you are like me and drive short distances in the car and do not allow the engine to properly warm up then it may cause more wear on the engine.

Example:

I drive to the train-station every morning which is 2,5 miles from me. This does not let my engine get up to normal operating temp and the oil frequently does not reach operating temp on my winter morning drives. Since this happens the colder temps make the oil more viscous and could cause long term harm to the engine to the tight spaces of the S65.

So what do i do?

I run a oil that is much thinner at cold temps. Hence the 0-w40. The oil is much lighter at cold temps and lubricates my engine much better on my cold short morning trips.

Conclusion: you need an oil for the type of driving you are doing in the car. If you goo balls out every day for 3 hours in the car than yes stick to the stock weight. If you drive very little distances and in the cold then you might want to consider a lighter oil for more cold protection.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrk

Because if you are like me and drive short distances in the car and do not allow the engine to properly warm up then it may cause more wear on the engine.

Example:

I drive to the train-station every morning which is 2,5 miles from me. This does not let my engine get up to normal operating temp and the oil frequently does not reach operating temp on my winter morning drives. Since this happens the colder temps make the oil more viscous and could cause long term harm to the engine to the tight spaces of the S65.

So what do i do?

I run a oil that is much thinner at cold temps. Hence the 0-w40. The oil is much lighter at cold temps and lubricates my engine much better on my cold short morning trips.

Conclusion: you need an oil for the type of driving you are doing in the car. If you goo balls out every day for 3 hours in the car than yes stick to the stock weight. If you drive very little distances and in the cold then you might want to consider a lighter oil for more cold protection.

I would never subject an M3 to that kind of driving.

you should buy yourself a little manual beater just to drive to the train station.

I'm not convinced the s65 has tight spaces if it is spec'd for 10w60 oil, but 0w40 would definitely help for the type of driving you do. wouldnt it be damaging to your lifters and valves, bearings though?

[bimmerfrk]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

I would never subject an M3 to that kind of driving.

you should buy yourself a little manual beater just to drive to the train station.

I'm not convinced the s65 has tight spaces if it is spec'd for 10w60 oil, but 0w40 would definitely help for the type of driving you do. wouldnt it be damaging to your lifters and valves, bearings though?

Yea i know we got an X4 for this reason. But then we had a kid. So now we both work at different times due to the kid and my M3 had to go back into commission and no longer a weekend car again. :-/

I don't know what my wife will say about getting a third car...... That's why i run the 0w40 and i take it really really easy on the car. Its definitely much better with 0w40 that running the stock for my morning commutes.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrk

Yea i know we got an X4 for this reason. But then we had a kid. So now we both work at different times due to the kid and my M3 had to go back into commission and no longer a weekend car again. :-/

I don't know what my wife will say about getting a third car...... That's why i run the 0w40 and i take it really really easy on the car. Its definitely much better with 0w40 that running the stock for my morning commutes.

hmm.. for your case, I would definitely look into shell rotella t6 for both of your vehicles. for a 5w40 weight, this stuff is incredible on cold starts. my valves were quite noisy on cold starts and I had lots of the infamous N52 HVA tick once i neared roughly 5000 miles on my previous interval of castrol 5w40.

I switched to shell rotella, and the ticking was GONE. you cant even hear the valves on cold start anymore. I am amazed with this stuff. it warmed up quicker then before, runs smoother and quieter, and maintains temps better all at the same time. I will definitely be sticking by this stuff for a while. it also holds up amazingly well to shearing. with Mobil 1 or castrol shearing down an oil weight every 2-3000 miles, a fellow 35d owner on here showed us that this rotella stuff did not shear after 13,000 miles of use. amazing.

[bimmerfrk]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

hmm.. for your case, I would definitely look into shell rotella t6 for both of your vehicles. for a 5w40 weight, this stuff is incredible on cold starts. my valves were quite noisy on cold starts and I had lots of the infamous N52 HVA tick once i neared roughly 5000 miles on my previous interval of castrol 5w40.

I switched to shell rotella, and the ticking was GONE. you cant even hear the valves on cold start anymore. I am amazed with this stuff. it warmed up quicker then before, runs smoother and quieter, and maintains temps better all at the same time. I will definitely be sticking by this stuff for a while. it also holds up amazingly well to shearing. with Mobil 1 or castrol shearing down an oil weight every 2-3000 miles, a fellow 35d owner on here showed us that this rotella stuff did not shear after 13,000 miles of use. amazing.

This stuff?




Looks interesting and I am due for a yearly fluid change this month....

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrk

This stuff?

Attachment 1565533


Looks interesting and I am due for a yearly fluid change this month....

yes, that is exactly what I used.

I'm very impressed. my engine loved it. it protects your drivetrain extremely well on cold starts for a 5w40 weight.

[G80indy]

I run this in the winter for M52TUB25 and M54B30 motors....
Bulletproof in zero F.
Exceptional cold start protection.
And smooth running.
Nothing else like it!

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

but if BMW spec's 10w60, why would one use something specifically not specified by the manfacturer? as if they know better. it doesnt make any sense.

Good question. Outside of special use cases like heavily modified motors, I'm not sure I know either. It's almost like people assume BMW didn't bother spending countless hours and dollars on lubrication testing.

If you're ever curious, go read some of Doug Hilary's posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. He shares a lot of cool insider info on how BMW and Castrol collaborated on the development of TWS for a long time. Contrary to what naysayers claim on the Internet, BMW didn't choose TWS purely for financial reasons.

The "10w60 vs (lighter oil)" topic has been repeated on here ad nauseam so I won't bother rehashing all of the perspectives people have given. Suffice to say I will put my trust in BMW, but others are more skeptical. I encourage everyone to do their own research and develop their own conclusions based on facts and evidence, not anecdotal bits of information. I find this approach works well for a lot of things in life.

330indy has done his research and decided to use Red Line and a non-10w60 viscosity, and he's obviously welcome to do so since it's his car and his money.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by dparm

Good question. Outside of special use cases like heavily modified motors, I'm not sure I know either. It's almost like people assume BMW didn't bother spending countless hours and dollars on lubrication testing.

If you're ever curious, go read some of Doug Hilary's posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. He shares a lot of cool insider info on how BMW and Castrol collaborated on the development of TWS for a long time. Contrary to what naysayers claim on the Internet, BMW didn't choose TWS purely for financial reasons.

The "10w60 vs (lighter oil)" topic has been repeated on here ad nauseam so I won't bother rehashing all of the perspectives people have given. Suffice to say I will put my trust in BMW, but others are more skeptical. I encourage everyone to do their own research and develop their own conclusions based on facts and evidence, not anecdotal bits of information. I find this approach works well for a lot of things in life.

330indy has done his research and decided to use Red Line and a non-10w60 viscosity, and he's obviously welcome to do so since it's his car and his money.

And you may find this interesting----
It was my direct correspondence with Doug Hilary in our discussion of original TWS where he states that it is more like a "heavier 40 weight" oil!
I dial down the viscosity of 10W60 Redline for that reason and also after correspondence with Dave at Redline. Redline viscosity is so robust that their site has an article about stepping down a grade is only possible with their products essentially, while not sacrificing protection.
So yes it is my own personal research that has led me to this approach. My M is only driven during temperate months.
And my car loves it.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by dparm

Good question. Outside of special use cases like heavily modified motors, I'm not sure I know either. It's almost like people assume BMW didn't bother spending countless hours and dollars on lubrication testing.

If you're ever curious, go read some of Doug Hilary's posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. He shares a lot of cool insider info on how BMW and Castrol collaborated on the development of TWS for a long time. Contrary to what naysayers claim on the Internet, BMW didn't choose TWS purely for financial reasons.

The "10w60 vs (lighter oil)" topic has been repeated on here ad nauseam so I won't bother rehashing all of the perspectives people have given. Suffice to say I will put my trust in BMW, but others are more skeptical. I encourage everyone to do their own research and develop their own conclusions based on facts and evidence, not anecdotal bits of information. I find this approach works well for a lot of things in life.

330indy has done his research and decided to use Red Line and a non-10w60 viscosity, and he's obviously welcome to do so since it's his car and his money.

the only case where I would ever disregard a manufacturers suggestion is recommending 0w20 oil. nowhere else in the world except for north america "requires" this weight.

my dads Mazda is spec'ed for 0w20. we switched to 5w30 and the engine could not have loved it more.

0w20 is death for your bearings.

as for M cars in the winter, how about trying 5w50? I would probably stick to 10w60 regardless, an M3 shouldnt really be a winter car anyways.

[Doc Oc]

I've been running m1 5w50 for 6 mos now. I've run 4 uoa's during that time and never had more than 1 ppm lead and copper. Viscosity is directly in-between 0w40 and 10w60 obviously. It's a bit hard to find but I'm very satisfied with it. Not sure why more people don't look at it as an option. I had been running redline 5w50 before that but uoa's showed it to actually be thicker than tws after shearing so personally I wouldnt run any redline except 40.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I've been running m1 5w50 for 6 mos now. I've run 4 uoa's during that time and never had more than 1 ppm lead and copper. Viscosity is directly in-between 0w40 and 10w60 obviously. It's a bit hard to find but I'm very satisfied with it. Not sure why more people don't look at it as an option. I had been running redline 5w50 before that but uoa's showed it to actually be thicker than tws after shearing so personally I wouldnt run any redline except 40.

" TWS after shearing " ?

Is that your standard ?

[Doc Oc]

Not sure what that means? For people who want a thinner oil than OEM the only real redline option is a w40.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Not sure what that means? For people who want a thinner oil than OEM the only real redline option is a w40.

What I'm getting at is, TWS after shearing down is NOT optimal. I think a better more robust oil film is in order, as you alluded to earlier in this thread.
I am referring to warm seasons, so not advocating winter use oils, w/cold start temps, for 0w or 5w40.

[Doc Oc]

Oh ok, makes sense.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

the only case where I would ever disregard a manufacturers suggestion is recommending 0w20 oil. nowhere else in the world except for north america "requires" this weight.

my dads Mazda is spec'ed for 0w20. we switched to 5w30 and the engine could not have loved it more.

0w20 is death for your bearings.

It's true that the shift down to 0w20 and 5w20 is probably related to stricter CAFE requirements, but oils are always improving. If Xw20 was really a problem, we would be hearing about countless cars from Ford, Mazda, Toyota, etc. blowing up or needing rebuilds...and that just isn't happening.

Something to consider is that the narrower the viscosity spread (the difference between the first two digits and the last two digits), the more stable an oil tends to be. In other words, for a 0w20 and 0w30, the 0w20 is probably the more stable oil since the spread is only 20 points instead of 30. This has to do with additives and base chemistry differences needed to achieve the larger spread.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by dparm

It's true that the shift down to 0w20 and 5w20 is probably related to stricter CAFE requirements, but oils are always improving. If Xw20 was really a problem, we would be hearing about countless cars from Ford, Mazda, Toyota, etc. blowing up or needing rebuilds...and that just isn't happening.

Something to consider is that the narrower the viscosity spread (the difference between the first two digits and the last two digits), the more stable an oil tends to be. In other words, for a 0w20 and 0w30, the 0w20 is probably the more stable oil since the spread is only 20 points instead of 30. This has to do with additives and base chemistry differences needed to achieve the larger spread.

apparently 0w20 causes your bearings to blow as soon as your warranty is up. if its run hard, I imagine it wont even make it past the warranty.

either way, we switched to 5w30 and the engine thanked us for it. runs much smoother and stopped burning oil.