Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread

[BPMSport]

The last two people waiting for Harrops on this last batch, good news, they are shipping today!

Will be in touch with those on the waiting list soon. Thanks everyone

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

With the help of Mike Benvo from BPMSport, my Harrop SC kit is now making boost once again. The issue turned out to be a loose power wire connection that feeds both the intercooler pump and the bypass valve actuator. Mike asked me a few questions, and then pretty much nailed the root cause right away, because the intercooler pump was not running when the ignition was turned on. At first we thought it might be a bad relay or a fuse.

However, after opening up the DME wiring loom box, and removing the salmon relay (to which the SC kit's hot power wire is connected), the intercooler pump started running again when the ignition was turned back on. Squeezing the connector made the pump turn on and off. So - bingo - it was a lose a connection.

It's all back together now and back making boost once again. Many, many, thanks to Mike Benvo for contacting me, his high degree of professionalism, and his willingness to help me debug the issue. Mike lived up to his great reputation, is very knowledgeable and was also generous with his time and talent. Thanks again Mike.
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PS:
It should be noted that the shop that installed my kit did NOT solder the connections and instead opted for a quick connect solution. After 5+ years the connection came loose. It can also be seen that the blue quick connect clasp was not closed and seated correctly. The kit installation instructions explicitly call for soldered connections which was not done by the install shop and will need to be redone. In the photos below, both of the SC kit connections for the throttle position sensor and intercooler pump / bypass valve regulator power feed can be seen covered with black electrical tape.
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This post was a giant help to me today.

I had the car detailed, and when I picked it up, I was greeted by a check engine light. The codes were something to do with the pedal assembly. Anyway, I cleared them, and restarted the car and nothing came back.

Drove off, and the minute I gave it some throttle, it wanted to fall flat on its face. Obviously no boost. Had a friend check to see if the bypass actuator was moving when I moved the throttle while key on engine off. No movement. Also noticed the engine bay had been detailed. Uh oh....

Gave Mike a call for some clarifying questions. He was quite helpful and put me on the right track. I was suspecting it was a fuse, but deeply worried one of the electronics got fried somehow.

I then started digging through this thread searching for the word fuse, and this is where I got a major clue. I noticed that in addition to the bypass not moving, that the intercooler pump wasn't running either. Definitely power realated, as the harrop electronics aren't responsible for energizing the intercooler pump as far as I am aware.

Started digging into the DME area. Checked the fuses for the harrop system. All good. Looked at the harrop relay... it felt slightly warm. Jiggled the wires a bit, and the intercooler pump came on!

Now we are very close, start looking further, and things arent quite making sense. Seems like if I put pressure on the relay it turns on. Checked the connector, everything looks good, tests right. Relay has a slight rattle to it.

Ran out to orileys and got an "equivalent" relay. Got home, plugged it in with the ignition off, and right as I made contact with the connector the intercooler pump kicked on. Thats not right! But it also tells me the connector is A-OK and so is the wiring. Checking the wiring diagram on the relay again, its ever so slightly different. Ok, time to return the relay.

Plugged the old relay back in and..... everything now works fine. I still don't trust it, and have ordered a legit Bosch replacement. $6 dollar part on amazon. Looks like they are used in a bunch of cars.

I'll change it out next week when it arrives.

Thank you DrFerry, and thank you Mike!

[drwankel]

Chatted with Mike a bit more and a loose ground pin could also be the culprit. I noticed while troubleshooting that if I added a little pressure on the back of the ground wire, the intercooler pump would turn on. This was not always the case, and other times it required pressure from the entire connector.

My thinking is either the connection is loose, or the relay has failed internally, and intermittently works.

Plan is still to replace the relay. Its cheap. While there, I will see if there is anything I will give the ground connection another look, and if loose see if there I can tighten it up. Ideally, I'll need to find a way to depin the ground connection from the relay connector. From there, I can see the connection point on the wire, and see how tight it is on the relay blade, and adjust anything accordingly.

Another quirk of this is I hadn't actually seen my DME Harrop wiring until today, and I am less than thrilled about how the installer routed everything. I may consider redoing the harrop harness from scratch. I cannot unsee what I have seen. As the saying goes, if you want the job done right...

[BPMSport]

What we've seen is that many shops do not follow the supplied directions and use wire taps, or other methods of making the connections instead of soldering and heat shrinking which is what the manual calls far.

Unfortunately as a result of this, over time we have seen a few customers experience intermittent issues.

On local installations I always do the wiring job myself and am very meticulous about how it's done. The earlier electronics boxes without MSA are fairly easy, but the later ones with MSA (auto start/stop) are incredibly more difficult and time consuming as they have two additional devices in the E box for MSA power distribution and regulation. For someone doing a quick job, this doesn't add a whole lot of time, but for me it easily adds a couple hours.

A week ago, a customer that originally scheduled another shop to do the installation as we were booked for a few months contacted us to redo the wiring. We recommend having this discussion with your installer to ensure that short cuts that lead to future problems are not taken. Although book time for the installation is 10 hours, we often take longer as we are beyond meticulous. Attached is the installation of the last 2011 car we performed. You can see that the secondary air relay and other components have been moved to make room for the Electronic Bypass controller. The final picture is one the customer sent of the install performed at another shop for comparison. You can see the difference between our installation and what it looks like quickly done using taps and without soldering. Moral is the story is don't rush if you want things done right, good things come to those who wait - and make sure to have a clear understanding with the shop performing the work!

[drwankel]

Update on my issue. Found a replacement Bosch relay at Napa out of all places.

Swapped it in and all appears to be well. Will give it a few days before I definitively say if its good or not. Triple checked the ground wire, and it looks ok.

The major tell tale sign however: The old relay has something rattling around inside when you shake it, the new one doesn't make a sound. Certainly seems like the old relay had an internal failure.

Will give it another check in the morning.

[drwankel]

Wanting a more definitive answer, I decide to break open the case of the old relay, and now I am very sure I have found the problem.

The part of the relay that moves to close the circuit when the coil is energized is quite badly corroded. This is more than likely the root cause.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by drwankel

Wanting a more definitive answer, I decide to break open the case of the old relay, and now I am very sure I have found the problem.

The part of the relay that moves to close the circuit when the coil is energized is quite badly corroded. This is more than likely the root cause.

Dang, is it corroded or is it scored from arcing? The inside of a plastic relay that lives inside the ECU cubby - if anything should be safe from corrosion you'd think it'd be that.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

Dang, is it corroded or is it scored from arcing? The inside of a plastic relay that lives inside the ECU cubby - if anything should be safe from corrosion you'd think it'd be that.

You are assuming that the installer actually put the fuses and relay in the DME Box. This whole endeavor was the first time I actually opened up the DME box, and I'm less than thrilled at what I see. The wiring for the harrop kit is actually going out the sides of the DME box, and one latch isnt secure as to not crush the wires. I think its all soldered, but I haven't checked all connections yet. Fuses and relays were tucked in front of and below the DME box. Was kind of surprising considering the engine bay wiring seems fine.

I'm considering getting a new harness and redoing it. I could also hypothetically cut and reroute the existing harness then resolder, if the factory harness solder connections are good. This option isn't terrible when you consider the a new harness needs to be soldered in anyway.

However, you do raise an interesting point. Maybe this is actually the result of arcing? The relay was not where it was supposed to be. The car had its engine bay detailed, and the trouble started after that. The relay and its connector could have been hit with water or something as they were exposed and caused the arcing.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by drwankel

You are assuming that the installer actually put the fuses and relay in the DME Box. This whole endeavor was the first time I actually opened up the DME box, and I'm less than thrilled at what I see. The wiring for the harrop kit is actually going out the sides of the DME box, and one latch isnt secure as to not crush the wires. I think its all soldered, but I haven't checked all connections yet. Fuses and relays were tucked in front of and below the DME box. Was kind of surprising considering the engine bay wiring seems fine.

I'm considering getting a new harness and redoing it. I could also hypothetically cut and reroute the existing harness then resolder, if the factory harness solder connections are good. This option isn't terrible when you consider the a new harness needs to be soldered in anyway.

However, you do raise an interesting point. Maybe this is actually the result of arcing? The relay was not where it was supposed to be. The car had its engine bay detailed, and the trouble started after that. The relay and its connector could have been hit with water or something as they were exposed and caused the arcing.

The Harrop Harness w/ associated relays and fuses shouldn't prevent the car from starting at all, even if there is an internal problem or water ingress/arcing. The only thing that arcing would do in this case is cause the bypass valve/controller and water pump to intermittently turn on and off.

I would gently pull up on the cowling where it meets the windshield on the passenger side. If you are able to lift it even a millimeter where it's not flush with the windshield, water could potentially enter the junction box which could cause all sorts of issues. Ensure the cowling is tight and snug to the windshield in that area.

I have never heard of an installer not putting everything in the electronics box, that's an entirely a new level of incompetence!

[nycplumber]

The install directions are absolutely phenomenal so it's surprising to hear that a professional would have issues. But then again some businesses really prioritize time = money so mistakes are inevitable with that approach. I would recommend to look at the directions and double check whatever else you can see so that if there is more issues you can educate them.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Sounds like a very poor installation indeed. After discovering relays hanging out of the junction box I'd be concerned about the rest of the installation too! Example: the cooling pump installation and wiring, as well as the throttle body boots snugness. The mind boggles.

Regarding the corrosion. Keep in mind there's a hood vent very close to the junction box area. This is another potential area for rain water to enter through. Additionally, many detailers use pressure washers so check the junction box for any residual water pooling (God forbid) or condensation..

Since you have before and after photos, if it were me I think I'd let the install shop owner or manager know what you discovered. As I said who knows what the rest of the install looks like. Were the correct torquing applied to the plenum mounting bolts and drive belt pulley bracket etc.

Sorry to hear about all of this but thanks for documenting and making us aware via the thread.

As far as I know Harrop doesn't have a program for training and officially certifying installation shops but now they do have an office in Ohio. Not that you need them with Mike's expertise and experience things can be diagnosed and debugged. However, I think it's a gap for Harrop. Unless Mike does the install, the kit purchaser is at the mercy of the installer.

I wish you good luck fixing the mess you're installer created. Mike B' is obviously your best resource and savior in these type of situations.

Yeah it's a bit of an odd one. The shop itself no longer exists, the owner/tech packed up and moved to Las Vegas. No real way of interfacing with the installer. It's quite alright though, I can fix it myself. The only reason I didn't install the kit myself was the lack of venue for the install. A job like this I want to take my time, and be able to start and stop working at will. Ideally your own garage. Didn't have that then.

Mechanically, it looks fine, hasn't given me any trouble, but there is one oddity I am curious about. The belt wear patterns on the feed assembly pulleys seem a bit strange. There is a somewhat middle wear pattern on one pulley, but the other is right at the very edge. In addition, while the car is running, you can see the belt move ever so slightly as it crosses the supercharger pulley. Makes me wonder if the supercharger alignment is off a touch. The answer is probably just to redo the supercharger alignment from the install instructions and see if anything changes.

[BPMSport]

We are placing an order for a number of do88 coolers (oil cooler, radiator, dct cooler, and PS). If anyone is interested in getting them, please let us know ASAP.

[drwankel]

I am preparing to go sort my Harrop harness out. My current connections are wrapped in electrical tape, and I have doubts they are soldered. I didn't have tape to replace it if once removed and old electrical tape never goes back on the same way, so I haven't physically seen it yet. My thought is if you didn't take the effort to install heat shrink, you probably didn't solder it either. I have new tape coming tomorrow.

I've been checking the install manual- and I have a couple of questions about the soldering process.

The manual explicitly states to disconnect the connector and de-pin the terminal from the connector for each wire you are working on. I understand the reasoning for disconnecting the connector- you don't want to heat up whatever the connector is connected to.

However, when soldering other things, I haven't gone as far as to de-pin the terminal from the connector on the wire I was soldering, and never really had an issue. Perhaps I should have? I suppose they are worried about the heat from soldering melting the inside of the connector? Or maybe they are just doing that so you can solder without a cut wire cut, and de-pinning is necessary to get the heat shrink on?

My questions are:

Is everybody going all the way with de-pinning the terminals from the connectors before soldering or is this Harrop being extra safe in the instructions? If de-pinning the connectors is not there to protect the connector itself during soldering, and my wire is already cut- then presumably I could skip de-pinning all together.

And lastly if de-pinning the terminals is absolutely the way to go can anybody share some tips/tricks/tools for de-pinning the connectors? (DME and relay) I know the general process, release some secret tab and then the terminal will pull out. Often there is a secret trick or tool required to release the retainer, and I'd like to be prepared before I start.

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I am preparing to go sort my Harrop harness out. My current connections are wrapped in electrical tape, and I have doubts they are soldered. I didn't have tape to replace it if once removed and old electrical tape never goes back on the same way, so I haven't physically seen it yet. My thought is if you didn't take the effort to install heat shrink, you probably didn't solder it either. I have new tape coming tomorrow.

I've been checking the install manual- and I have a couple of questions about the soldering process.

The manual explicitly states to disconnect the connector and de-pin the terminal from the connector for each wire you are working on. I understand the reasoning for disconnecting the connector- you don't want to heat up whatever the connector is connected to.

However, when soldering other things, I haven't gone as far as to de-pin the terminal from the connector on the wire I was soldering, and never really had an issue. Perhaps I should have? I suppose they are worried about the heat from soldering melting the inside of the connector? Or maybe they are just doing that so you can solder without a cut wire cut, and de-pinning is necessary to get the heat shrink on?

My questions are:

Is everybody going all the way with de-pinning the terminals from the connectors before soldering or is this Harrop being extra safe in the instructions? If de-pinning the connectors is not there to protect the connector itself during soldering, and my wire is already cut- then presumably I could skip de-pinning all together.

And lastly if de-pinning the terminals is absolutely the way to go can anybody share some tips/tricks/tools for de-pinning the connectors? (DME and relay) I know the general process, release some secret tab and then the terminal will pull out. Often there is a secret trick or tool required to release the retainer, and I'd like to be prepared before I start.

Just to clarify first I don't have the manual and am speaking more in terms of proceedure whilst running an Electronic Engineering design business for many years.
There are generally 2 reasons for instructions of this nature, they are for a variety of installers with limited soldering experience and may be using unsuitable soldering irons and de-pinning allows seperation of the wire away from other conductors in the same terminal header that may get burnt by soldering in a difficult postion. To me de-pinning should only be done to remove a wire from a terminal when another device has to be wired in series with the terminal. The removal of a pin from a harness can cause problems of its own. There are spring tags on the back of the terminal that are generally pushed down with a small flat bladed screwdriver or similar to remove the conductor from the header. If the tag is damaged it will no longer retain the wire in the header, plus people have been known to break wires doing this.
I think the safest way (to spice wiring) is to cut the wire and strip each end, then twist them back together along with the new wire,solder, then slide pre installed heatshrink tube over the joint and heat the tube. Then cover with cloth tape.
When doing this wrap the other conductors in a protective cover to avoid burning or dropping solder. Use a small soldering iron there are some amazing USB rechargable electronics soldering irons now. Also to avoid transfering excessive heat to the terminal header a small metal clamp or tweezer can be used to absorb excessive heat between the solder joint and the connector

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I am preparing to go sort my Harrop harness out. My current connections are wrapped in electrical tape, and I have doubts they are soldered. I didn't have tape to replace it if once removed and old electrical tape never goes back on the same way, so I haven't physically seen it yet. My thought is if you didn't take the effort to install heat shrink, you probably didn't solder it either. I have new tape coming tomorrow.

I've been checking the install manual- and I have a couple of questions about the soldering process.

The manual explicitly states to disconnect the connector and de-pin the terminal from the connector for each wire you are working on. I understand the reasoning for disconnecting the connector- you don't want to heat up whatever the connector is connected to.

However, when soldering other things, I haven't gone as far as to de-pin the terminal from the connector on the wire I was soldering, and never really had an issue. Perhaps I should have? I suppose they are worried about the heat from soldering melting the inside of the connector? Or maybe they are just doing that so you can solder without a cut wire cut, and de-pinning is necessary to get the heat shrink on?

My questions are:

Is everybody going all the way with de-pinning the terminals from the connectors before soldering or is this Harrop being extra safe in the instructions? If de-pinning the connectors is not there to protect the connector itself during soldering, and my wire is already cut- then presumably I could skip de-pinning all together.

And lastly if de-pinning the terminals is absolutely the way to go can anybody share some tips/tricks/tools for de-pinning the connectors? (DME and relay) I know the general process, release some secret tab and then the terminal will pull out. Often there is a secret trick or tool required to release the retainer, and I'd like to be prepared before I start.

I've done this procedure twice. I recommend doing it when you have plenty of time and energy as it is fine work.

I did not de-pin but very carefully removed the insulation with a wire stripper to create upstream and downstream cuts, a utility knife with fresh blade to slice down the length of the insulation, and then a pick to pull away the insulation to expose 1-1.5 cm of bare wire. Then I wrap the Harrop wire around the section and solder it in, using a section of foil under the wiring to prevent solder from falling into the ecu box or onto other electrical parts.

To de-pin allows you to slide down a heat shrink tubing. If you don't de-pin you're left to wrap with electrical tape.

I do agree with the post above re benefits of de-pinning. However, my connections are solid and I don't think about them.

[erics02wrx]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I am preparing to go sort my Harrop harness out. My current connections are wrapped in electrical tape, and I have doubts they are soldered. I didn't have tape to replace it if once removed and old electrical tape never goes back on the same way, so I haven't physically seen it yet. My thought is if you didn't take the effort to install heat shrink, you probably didn't solder it either. I have new tape coming tomorrow.

I've been checking the install manual- and I have a couple of questions about the soldering process.

The manual explicitly states to disconnect the connector and de-pin the terminal from the connector for each wire you are working on. I understand the reasoning for disconnecting the connector- you don't want to heat up whatever the connector is connected to.

However, when soldering other things, I haven't gone as far as to de-pin the terminal from the connector on the wire I was soldering, and never really had an issue. Perhaps I should have? I suppose they are worried about the heat from soldering melting the inside of the connector? Or maybe they are just doing that so you can solder without a cut wire cut, and de-pinning is necessary to get the heat shrink on?

My questions are:

Is everybody going all the way with de-pinning the terminals from the connectors before soldering or is this Harrop being extra safe in the instructions? If de-pinning the connectors is not there to protect the connector itself during soldering, and my wire is already cut- then presumably I could skip de-pinning all together.

And lastly if de-pinning the terminals is absolutely the way to go can anybody share some tips/tricks/tools for de-pinning the connectors? (DME and relay) I know the general process, release some secret tab and then the terminal will pull out. Often there is a secret trick or tool required to release the retainer, and I'd like to be prepared before I start.

I just got done installing the wiring for my Harrop SC…

No need to de-pin or cut wires. Use a self adjusting automatic wire striper to cut and spread the wire sheathing on the DME/relay wire exposing the bare wire underneath, then wrap new tap wire around the exposed DME/relay wire, solder and wrap with cloth electrical tape. I have used this process for 20 years without fail. I love heat shrink but de-pinning is not easy for someone that doesn’t have the proper tools and hasn’t done it before, it’s not worth the chance of damaging the pins or connector in my opinion.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by erics02wrx

I just got done installing the wiring for my Harrop SC…

No need to de-pin or cut wires. Use a self adjusting automatic wire striper to cut and spread the wire sheathing on the DME/relay wire exposing the bare wire underneath, then wrap new tap wire around the exposed DME/relay wire, solder and wrap with cloth electrical tape. I have used this process for 20 years without fail. I love heat shrink but de-pinning is not easy for someone that doesn’t have the proper tools and hasn’t done it before, it’s not worth the chance of damaging the pins or connector in my opinion.

Did you remove the connectors or solder with them still connected to the DME?

Also thanks everyone for the clarification on the depinning. I never had done that before- and was starting to wonder if I should have been doing it all along.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by drwankel

Did you remove the connectors or solder with them still connected to the DME?

Also thanks everyone for the clarification on the depinning. I never had done that before- and was starting to wonder if I should have been doing it all along.

I disconnected the adapter from the ecu before doing this. It's not necessarily required but allows you to check and double check that you're splicing into the right wire. Also creates a little more room to work.

[erics02wrx]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

I disconnected the adapter from the ecu before doing this. It's not necessarily required but allows you to check and double check that you're splicing into the right wire. Also creates a little more room to work.

+1 ^

[DukeofAlexandria]

Depin it….best and easiest way to ensure a solid connection with heat shrink and soldered joint.

-Duke

[BPMSport]

For what it's worth, I usually don't depin those two although I always depin the two wires going to the DME as those are a cakewalk to remove. i've never had a connection fail or be intermittent. I think my kit has been on for nearly 9 years at this point.

[Tut4u2]

As others have mentioned, depinning could damage the retaining clip if not done properly. To avoid that potential headache, I used one of the self-adjusting wire strippers and stripped all the wires in a location that gave me wire on either end to re-solder just incase I frayed them or f'd it up in anyways. Once you strip them, its a straight forward process. I used electric tape to cover the connection then wrapped everything up with Tesa 51006 tape for an OEM look/finish.