ESS 550 Kit.. Tuned by Mike Benvo

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Hillarous thread. I couldn't disagree with DLSJ5 more. Tuners tune. That is what they do. It doesn't matter what manufacturer, what model, what engine, what mods, or especially who designed the supercharger kit on the car. All BMW tuners should be looking to get an ESS supercharger kit equipped car along with all other forced induction kits in their local shop to tune it and offer that tune to their customers. That is just smart business sense. Tuners don't owe anything to any aftermarket forced induction kit's creator. What is in the best interest of the customer is to have options. To see the numbers and the datalogs and choose.

I appreciate the civil response! Yes it happens of course, but you hardly ever see any reputable tuners out there take someone else's kit and tune it, it's a rarity and looked down upon. I wasn't referring to what was a smart business move, it's a question of ethics for me, there's plenty of smart business moves going on in the world that one might deem a little distasteful.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by happos2

I feel like quoting myself. Same exact topic, different industry. Although I fixed my grammatical error with by to buy

that would be a spelling error sir. Not all small blue pills are created equal

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I appreciate the civil response! Yes it happens of course, but you hardly ever see any reputable tuners out there take someone else's kit and tune it, it's a rarity and looked down upon. I wasn't referring to what was a smart business move, it's a question of ethics for me, there's plenty of smart business moves going on in the world that one might deem a little distasteful.

So, using your school of thought, ALL these aftermarket companies have questionable ethics because you know BMW spends millions and millions on research and development. So, an aftermarket can wait for a new "platform" to come out to start working on it, and tuners can't?

C'MON MAN?!?!
(Lute, come quote this with a Chris Carter gif )

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Don't know enough to comment on that, however, I know Mike and he knows what he is doing. As far as your argument on a 3rd party tuning another parties S/C kit, well to be frank I think that's ridiculous. Its the owners money to do with what he pleases. Why shouldn't Mike be allowed to tune an ESS S/Cd car? Is their some sort of Non Compete Disclosure Agreement that goes out with the S/C kit when it is sold? I don't think so. After all this is America not China. If the OP wants to have his car tuned by BPM who are you or anyone to tell him not to.

I have no dog in this fight, as I don't even have BPM software. However, if I was to tune my car, I would have no issues with Mike tuning it. To be honest Drew you are coming across as fanboi for ESS, which you have every right to be just as a lot of people are enamored with Mikes prowess in tuning these cars, normally aspirated or blown.

On a nice note...how are the little ones doing? Growing fast huh? Its scary.

Dave

Lmao, I had a lot of respect for you Dave, until you pulled the silly fanboi card. So what would that make you a BPM fanboi? What experience do you have with FI on the S65 Dave? I have a problem with what BPM did, nothing more, am I allowed to state my opinion here without one of BPM's Cabana boys pulling the hate or fanboi card? I have zero issues with someone disagreeing with me and laying it out why but does ESS send you obnoxious, immature, odd texts because of your POV on the forums? Well your boy Benvo does, yeah he may know code, but he certainly has a behavior/conduct issue, I guess the latter doesn't matter.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I appreciate the civil response! Yes it happens of course, but you hardly ever see any reputable tuners out there take someone else's kit and tune it, it's a rarity and looked down upon. I wasn't referring to what was a smart business move, it's a question of ethics for me, there's plenty of smart business moves going on in the world that one might deem a little distasteful.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But answer this - how is this different from BPM/ESS/whoever tuning the ECU that BMW originally programed and designed for its car?

[MilehighM3]

@ The Tech
Well put. I felt compelled to post in here as well, but you covered just about everything I wanted to and then some. I laugh at the ESS guys here, they know no other way.
Please keep in mind I also have not purchased products or services from BPM at this time. I may in the near future as a result of the products and services offered appealing to me, only time will tell.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I appreciate the civil response! Yes it happens of course, but you hardly ever see any reputable tuners out there take someone else's kit and tune it, it's a rarity and looked down upon. I wasn't referring to what was a smart business move, it's a question of ethics for me, there's plenty of smart business moves going on in the world that one might deem a little distasteful.

Enough of this 'someone else's kit' nonsense man, let's get real:

ESS VT2-625:

System components:

-Vortech V3Si supercharger unit.
-Vortech Maxflow Race bypass assembly.
-Uni-belt drive system with additional OEM quality rollers.
-8 High Capacity Bosch Motorsport fuel injectors (Spec 3).
-Perfectly optimized, dyno tweaked MSS60 ECU software with removed top speed governor, calibrated for spec 3 injectors.
-CNC hard anodized brackets and hardware.
-K&N high flow air filter.
-High temperature casted plastic intake system for SC
-High capacity liquid intercooler system (VT2 only).
-Cast aluminium ESS intake manifold with integrated lightweight velocity stacks optimized for boost.
-High temperature silicone hoses with clamps
-Detailed, step-by-step installation manual.
-Heavy-Duty drive belt.
-ESS oil breather assembly designed for boost.
-All installation hardware included
-2yr./unlimited mileage warranty.
-ESS E-Flash reprogramming and diagnostic interface.


VF620 Supercharger System

- 6.0-7.0psi manifold boost pressure
- 620 hp / 400 ft/lbs
- Vortech V3Si Compressor, in exclusive VFE Ceramic Black finish
- Textured cast-aluminum intake manifold
- High flow Greddy Type R overrun bypass valve system
- CAD designed cassette-style slide aftercooler cartridge
- OEM front-mounted water-to-air intercooler
- Dedicated Recirculation System with High Flow Electric Pump and OEM-type reservoir
- CNC Machined T6061 supercharger Bracket, T3 anodized for strength and durability
- K&N Oiled Type Air Filter, with rotomolded intake tract
- Hex OBD2 USB Flash Cable capable of loading multiple tunes/diagnostics
- Upgraded Bosch fuel injectors
- Silicone Coupler Hoses w/ Norma euro-style hose clamps
- OBD2 compliant for dealer diagnostics
- Fully reversible conversion
- Detailed Instructions
- 1 year unlimited mileage warranty
- Easily upgradable to VF650

What do we notice right away? These kits (and similar with AA/Evolve, etc) are nothing but a mashup of other manufacturers parts. The components that are made by the vendor are more or less limited to the manifold, and the tune, and THAT IS ALL. So what we're debating here is whether or not BPM can make a competing TUNE for the Vortech/Bosch/Etc [read NON-ESS] parts that make up the kit. I would assume that even the manifolds in these kits are extremely similar in construction -- so we can probably eliminate those as well. In fact, all BPM would have to do to release a "Supercharger Kit" would be to work out their tune for it, have a manifold fabbed, and buy some parts from other manufacturers... just like ESS do. I'm not saying ESS isn't great, as it appears they are, but let's not go around acting like they've hand-built every piece of their 'kit.' We're talking about competing tunes, and any competition should be encouraged.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I appreciate the civil response! Yes it happens of course, but you hardly ever see any reputable tuners out there take someone else's kit and tune it, it's a rarity and looked down upon. I wasn't referring to what was a smart business move, it's a question of ethics for me, there's plenty of smart business moves going on in the world that one might deem a little distasteful.

Drew we see that all the time, especially in the Mustang market. Vortech sells directly to Mustang owners, yet every one that sells these kits offer their own tune. Some of these tuners are huge in the Mustang market, such as Steeda, Saleen, Evolution Performance just to name a few.

Here is a Evo Mustang GT running mid 8s 160mph..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj2VQ...yer_detailpage


I think ESS did a hell of job putting the kit together so folks can run these huffers and they got paid handsomely doing it. A Vortech S trim or such for a Mustang is under $5k, while most S/C kits for M3s start near $8k and up for a basic kit.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

@ The Tech
Well put. I felt compelled to post in here as well, but you covered just about everything I wanted to and then some. I laugh at the ESS guys here, they know no other way.
Please keep in mind I also have not purchased products or services from BPM at this time. I may in the near future as a result of the products and services offered appealing to me, only time will tell.

It's got nothing to do with ESS, I'd feel the same to ESS tuned another well running kit. It's unfortunate when people are quick to assert someone's opinion is based on what they run, I simply have an issue with this, regardless of who does it.

[pkimM3r]

nicely said nullrouted. I was actually doing the same thing but left it at, all guys run the Vortech kit. All kits should be called Vortech SC with XXX manifold

Does anyone else notice this on the forums?

-BPM review (ESS guys start questioning shit)
-ESS review (ESS guys are partying it up in there)

In both cases, ESS folks.

I say, get the product which is best for you! Mix and mash shit up.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by chris s

WOW...this is going right over some folks heads huh? What are listed above are ALL components that make up a particular kit. Doesn't Greddy produce bypass valves TO BE USED ON aftermarket kits???? LOLLLL. Believe me, those parts are being paid for when they're used on a "kit" like ESS or AA or Gintani or ABC!!!

If vortech blowers weren't to be purchased and used as part of other companies systems, they wouldn't be in business!

Exactly my point -- I think it went over your head. The kits are fundamentally the same, therefore the differentiating factor is mainly the TUNE.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

It's got nothing to do with ESS, I'd feel the same to ESS tuned another well running kit. It's unfortunate when people are quick to assert someone's opinion is based on what they run, I simply have an issue with this, regardless of who does it.

well somebody touched and tuned BMW's marvel of a machine that came out of their own R&D. You should in fact, have an issue with this.

Doesn't this just sound strange?

[chris s]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

nicely said nullrouted. I was actually doing the same thing but left it at, all guys run the Vortech kit. All kits should be called Vortech SC with XXX manifold

Does anyone else notice this on the forums?

-BPM review (ESS guys start questioning shit)
-ESS review (ESS guys are partying it up in there)

In both cases, ESS folks.

I say, get the product which is best for you! Mix and mash shit up.

Vortech is NOT A kit!!! It's a blower....by itself it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. ESS uses their blowers just as AA buys rotrex blowers and has put in time and R&D to create a workable, usable system, ALONG with a TUNE!

If companies like ESS weren't using vortech blowers, vortech wouldn't be in business.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

nicely said nullrouted. I was actually doing the same thing but left it at, all guys run the Vortech kit. All kits should be called Vortech SC with XXX manifold

Does anyone else notice this on the forums?

-BPM review (ESS guys start questioning shit)
-ESS review (ESS guys are partying it up in there)

In both cases, ESS folks.

I say, get the product which is best for you! Mix and mash shit up.

The bad blood there runs deep... not really sure why. Although I applaud Mike for moving into the S/C market (if that's what he plans to do). Considering a Vortech S3i is only like $2k new -- I bet someone could put together a 650hp kit for way less than say... $15k. I believe those shops are doing it because it's de-facto price collusion after the first one releases the kit, and it's for a BMW. All someone would have to do is put out a 650HP kit for more like $9-$10k and have dynos to back it up and the rest of those guys would be shaking in their boots.

[pkimM3r]

I think Greddy makes the bypass valve to be used on a supercharger system - not on an AFTERMARKET kit. You could slap the Greddy part on a stock supercharged setup. What are you thinking?

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by chris s

Vortech is NOT A kit!!! It's a blower....by itself it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. ESS uses their blowers just as AA buys rotrex blowers and has put in time and R&D to create a workable, usable system, ALONG with a TUNE!

If companies like ESS weren't using vortech blowers, vortech wouldn't be in business.

Oh my bad, they also include an intercooler, a K&N air filter, and some hoses, and add $13k to the price of a Vortech

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Lmao, I had a lot of respect for you Dave, until you pulled the silly fanboi card. So what would that make you a BPM fanboi? What experience do you have with FI on the S65 Dave? I have a problem with what BPM did, nothing more, am I allowed to state my opinion here without one of BPM's Cabana boys pulling the hate or fanboi card? I have zero issues with someone disagreeing with me and laying it out why but does ESS send you obnoxious, immature, odd texts because of your POV on the forums? Well your boy Benvo does, yeah he may know code, but he certainly has a behavior/conduct issue, I guess the latter doesn't matter.

Drew, if you lost respect in me because of this..well don't know what to say. I'm just calling it like I see it. Like I said I don't even have a BPM tune on my car. As far as Mike being banned only Mike and Jason know the reason for this. Unless you have something you care to share.

I don't have any experience in tuning a S65 FI car, and you know what neither do you. You didn't do it..you just threw money at your car and had someone else do it. Why are you getting so bent out of shape over this. The OP spent his own money tuning a ESS S/C kit (used I might add) and you are acting like someone pissed all over your poptart.

You need to pick your battles..this isn't one of them. There is the old adage..."when you are in a hole, you quit digging."

Dave

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Drew we see that all the time, especially in the Mustang market. Vortech sells directly to Mustang owners, yet every one that sells these kits offer their own tune. Some of these tuners are huge in the Mustang market, such as Steeda, Saleen, Evolution Performance just to name a few.

Here is a Evo Mustang GT running mid 8s 160mph..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj2VQ...yer_detailpage


I think ESS did a hell of job putting the kit together so folks can run these huffers and they got paid handsomely doing it. A Vortech S trim or such for a Mustang is under $5k, while most S/C kits for M3s start near $8k and up for a basic kit.

I rarely have seen it in the P-car, Audi, BMW scene, but it does happen of course, but it's rare. Dave, try and comprehend this, and everyone else who disagrees with me as well, this is my opinion, it has no agenda, no fanboi attachments, hater, etc. I think Evolve did this as well, don't like that, if ESS did in the past shame on them.

[chris s]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

Oh my bad, they also include an intercooler, a K&N air filter, and some hoses, and add $13k to the price of a Vortech

Doesn't even justify a response...

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I appreciate the civil response!

You are welcome. I remember the good ole days when I called you and tightie the Gintani fanbois.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You are welcome. I remember the good ole days when I called you and tightie the Gintani fanbois.

Haha, I remember that! Tightie still is, I moved on.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by chris s

Vortech is NOT A kit!!! It's a blower....by itself it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. ESS uses their blowers just as AA buys rotrex blowers and has put in time and R&D to create a workable, usable system, ALONG with a TUNE!

If companies like ESS weren't using vortech blowers, vortech wouldn't be in business.

Vortech sells many of their own kits for many makes and models. They don't need companies like ESS to stay in business. By the way Vortech offers what they call tuner kits for other makes and models where they expect the customer to find a tune from someone else while also offereing a kit with their own in house tune.