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01-01-2013, 09:36 AM | #89 | |
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M3 has better steering, better suspension, better chassis/body dynamics. You always know where you are in the relation to the cars limits when driving hard. You can literally feel what the car is doing in a way that you just didn't in the RS4. Engine is basically a toss up. Stock exhaust is better in the RS4. RS4 is easier to drive closer to the limit due to the grip of AWD. M3 will put giggles on your face more than the RS4, once you really learn to drive it. It took me about a year to master the M3 to a point where I could drive it as hard as the RS4 and be in control. With the RS4, there was really no learning curve. Quattro allows you to just get in and go, but the trade-off is that the car just doesn't feel as sharp as an M3.
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01-01-2013, 09:43 AM | #90 |
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It may be faster around the course, but that is strictly due to quattro. What I mean is that anyone who is an enthusiast will tell you that the M3 flat out feels more connected than the Audi
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01-01-2013, 10:02 AM | #91 |
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Correct. Take the same enthusiast driver after one year of ownership with each car, and I'll bet they will be able to take the M3 around a track faster than an RS5. On day one, they will be faster in the RS5. The M3 has a learning curve, but the RS5, due to quattro, really doesn't.
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01-01-2013, 10:58 AM | #92 | |
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Not to take anything away from the M3. It's more fun to drive (on the street or on track), according to the road testers. Bruce |
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01-01-2013, 11:06 AM | #93 | ||
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We're splitting hairs, though. Both terrific cars, and pick 'em. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 01-01-2013 at 11:40 AM.. Reason: Spelling |
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01-01-2013, 11:39 AM | #94 | |
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01-01-2013, 11:48 AM | #95 | |
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You needed a year of ownership. Experienced racers (such as the Fifth Gear guys) need maybe ten laps. Probably less. Bruce |
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01-01-2013, 11:58 AM | #96 | |
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Who the hell needs a whole year of ownership to learn to drive a car let alone an M3? Maybe if its a garage queen and only driven once a month. |
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01-01-2013, 01:32 PM | #97 |
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Okay. Point taken. I owned my RS4 for 4 years, and I drove it all year round. I only drive my M3 in nice weather and have owned it for 18 months. So, yes, for me, it took time until I was as comfortable pushing my M3 as I was in the RS4 after 4 years. But I see your point that people who do this stuff all the time wouldn't need so long.
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01-01-2013, 03:17 PM | #99 | |
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Although race experience is amazingly helpful, the deal is that learning how to get the most out of a car on a given race track is easy, compared with getting the most from a car on the street. On a race track, you've typically got twelve to fifteen turns, so if you have no race experience, it might take you 500 laps or more (with coaching) to start to get fast - but you'll get there in a tiny fraction of the time that it would take you on the street. In actual point of fact, you can't get going really fast on the street - ever. On track, there's never a kid running out there chasing a soccer ball, there's never sand or dirt or oil out there, there's never a couch positioned right across the road near the apex, or an eighteen wheeler coming around that blind curve, straddling the centerline, etc. - - or if there is something out there that needs your attention, a corner worker will conveniently point that out to you using various flags. On track, they also never put telephone poles, or fire hydrants, or whatever, next to the line. So, a track is the only place you can go really fast. On the street, going really fast means you're going to sooner rather than later get maimed or killed, or be put behind bars - period. Finally, it is very hard to overstate the difference between track driving and street driving. Very hard. As to the RS4, if it wasn't scaring you from time to time, you just weren't going fast enough. The Audi needs some manhandling at the limit, meaning, for instance, oversharp turn-in while giving the brake pedal a sharp jab on some turns, just to get the damned thing to rotate. Trust me, when you're doing this, you're going to get it wrong from time to time, threatening underwear, at least. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 01-01-2013 at 03:23 PM.. |
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01-01-2013, 04:42 PM | #101 |
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01-01-2013, 05:40 PM | #103 |
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01-01-2013, 05:56 PM | #104 | |
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01-01-2013, 09:37 PM | #105 | |
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This is for your viewing (in denial) pleasure
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01-02-2013, 08:18 AM | #106 | |
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As far as the RS4, you allude to the the unfortunate understeer of this car due to engine placement, among other things. This can be corrected with experience and skill--real pro drivers can handle anything. For the track day person, it's more of a problem than the M3. |
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01-03-2013, 06:33 AM | #107 |
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I test drove the panamera gts, e63, m5, s6,and a gs350 fsport a few weeks back as I'm looking to get a new car for transporting clients and for grocery shopping and costco runs as my other car is impractical but very fun. I liked the panamera gts and s6 the most and m5 the least because the suspension and steering feels awful, but I'll probably end up with the gs350 fsport. It's a lot cheaper (and slower), probably a lot more reliable than the rest, and I already have a car for fun.
The car bmw should've made is the e60 m5 with the v10 and dct. Now that would have been a great car. |
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01-03-2013, 06:59 AM | #108 | |
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01-03-2013, 01:59 PM | #109 |
Track? What Track? I was just riding along . . .
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I find Audi's U.S. television market advertising most tiresome. And I wouldn't buy one even if I knew it would be under manufacturer warranty for my entire ownership period, for fear that I would wind up in a dealer loaner far too often. I know a few people that have had good reliability with them, but some other people that have had real doozies.
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01-03-2013, 03:29 PM | #110 |
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