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03-16-2018, 06:12 PM | #89 | |
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If its a 5% failure rate, we're paying ~$1500 extra for piece of mind. But if piece of mind means you'll use the last 1000rpm more often, that's essentially a measure of performance (a mod!) for $1500. Also, local BMW shop says they've never pulled a set of bearings out of the S65 in a condition that would have been normal for any other motor. So, I'm dropping mine off on April 9th. It'll be interesting to see what Adam chooses to do. The way I've seen him approach methanol implies he's much less risk averse than I am. |
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03-16-2018, 06:22 PM | #90 | |
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I'm not questioning your or anyone else's ability to pay. I don't recall speaking of money at any point and definitely not calling you a cheapskate. This is a conversation, I don't want to clog up Longboarder's thread with an argument. From my experience, you can run this car very hard on the track with just a rotor upgrade as that is the 600lb gorilla. The single piston caliper, while ugly, performs quite well. |
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03-16-2018, 06:24 PM | #91 | |
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Once you have rod bearings in the back of your mind avoiding you from hitting the rev limiter you're better off just doing them. Besides, it's cool to see the insides of the S65. It's a very pretty engine |
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03-16-2018, 07:45 PM | #92 |
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It is a cool engine, better looking than any of my previous ohv entries.
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03-16-2018, 07:49 PM | #93 | |
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'17 C7 Vette GS (bye) / '15 F31 328 ix (sold) / '08 E92 335i (sold)/ '08 E92 M3 (RIP)/'01 M5 (sold, sniff)/'07 M5 (sold)/ '15 M5
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03-16-2018, 09:21 PM | #94 | |
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My 08 is at 55k (89k km) now with a clean Blackstone report at 45k and will collect another sample shortly. I'll be tracking the car 3-5 times this summer so I'll probably get the bearings swapped out next winter. Subbed to this thread since there is a great amount of info. |
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03-16-2018, 10:02 PM | #95 | |
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03-17-2018, 02:03 AM | #96 | |
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03-19-2018, 04:53 PM | #97 | |
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So in your solution, do you use PFC DD v3 rotors front and rear or just front? And the PFC 11 is that a combo street / track pad? That would be fantastic if there was little to no squeak. I went to the top of a mountain and did some hard braking and then parked my car (on a flat surface in Park brakes not engaged) and almost burned my face when I got close to the front wheel - it was coming from the front rotor. There was hardly any heat coming off the rear rotor. I see now why the stock brakes aren't up to track duty.
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03-19-2018, 05:01 PM | #98 | |
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My current M3 has 35,000 miles. After inspection, it was never supercharged and the primary exhaust was never changed. All stock bolts in the engine area were never turned. So the car wasn't modded but I don't know how it was previously driven. If it was beat on when the oil was still cold it could have done some damage to the rod bearings. My current M3 still has a warranty but I'm getting the itch to do a tune and front cat delete. I will have the tune run a 8,600 rpm fuel cut. Since my M3's motor mounts are also blown, it just makes sense to do bearings and motor mounts at the same time. So I will likely do both in the next few months.
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03-19-2018, 06:29 PM | #99 | |
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You are correct. The 'single piston' sounds like a joke but its *massive*. One time some person told me it was impossible the single piston exerted as much braking force as my PFC bbk. I bothered to look into it and yup, the single piston can exert more force than the bbk. Yes there's deflection, etc, but a single giant piston isn't necessarily worse than 36 pistons because the 36 would have to have a total surface area approximately the same as the one giant one. The pfc dd v3 is unfortunately only available for the front of the e9x m which is a real shame, but the front is what takes the brunt of it anyway. True story: On my track e46m it seemed like the rear rotors were on holiday whereas the fronts could burn hair off your leg after a session. I went ahead and bought a pfc dd for the front After that, the fronts seemed cool. Now the rears were hotter! I also got the rear kit and lived happily ever after Send me your email via pm and I'll send you the pics I took comparing a v3 dd rotor to the stock one. It is painfully clear that the issue is the rotor, not the caliper. You could put a 30 piston caliper there and it wouldn't do much. The pfc 11 is actually a full race pad. Somehow, inexplicably, it doesn't squeal like a pig. It makes some noise but the difference is immediately obvious. I drive with it all the time. This weekend my brother and i took both cars out for a spin. One has pfc12 compound and the other pfc11. On the pfc11 it is almost completely silent! The pfc12 (endurance compound, new version of the pfc08) is like a typical track pad which sounds like a garbage truck |
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03-19-2018, 07:40 PM | #100 | |
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03-19-2018, 09:33 PM | #101 | |
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I buy my pfc goodies at Bimmerworld. BW has a front pfc v3 dd setup 'pack' which includes the rotors, pfc pads of your choice, ss lines and solid guides. I don't recall what they cost but they're not cheap. That said, they last longer than my friend's ST40 rotors Tomorrow I'll post some pics comparing both rotors Update with pics Stock rotor vanes and air path PFC rotor vanes and air path
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03-20-2018, 10:54 AM | #102 |
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good ducting can (and in fact, does, because I've seen it on E92M racecars that are rules-limited to stock brakes) keep the stock brakes alive on track for a whole 45-minute race. But we are talking two hoses with backing plates up front, so it's not exactly a non-invasive procedure without compromise. And still changing pads and rotors pretty often. Maybe not long-term economical, but short-term just fine.
Lack of ducts is a design flaw for any dedicated track car's braking system IMO. Plenty of people get away with it just fine, but it's suboptimal for obvious reasons.
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03-20-2018, 01:03 PM | #103 |
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03-20-2018, 01:21 PM | #104 | |
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Lets say i don't want any brake squeal and the PFC11's squeal a little bit. Is there a non race pad that will work with these front rotors? And since the rear rotors will remain stock, is there a preferred pad upgrade for the rear in conjunction with the front rotor/pad upgrade? Like others I want to spend the least amount of money possible considering short and long term. A BBK has good resale value in the secondary market and perhaps less operating costs than other choices. But the upfront cost is huge.
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03-20-2018, 01:36 PM | #105 | |
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If someone can do 2:11 at WGI on street tires with a full weight M3 with this setup then it isn't the brakes holding people back. On the rear, no reason to not use the same compound as the front. This setup doesn't change the brake bias vs stock. You can get lots more info about these from the guy who helps me at BW, Phil. Dial extension 3008 after calling the BW main line, the guy knows what he's talking about. I believe you can use stock pads with these rotors, however, when I say the PFC11s aren't totally silent I mean it in the same way as the GC Street camber plate is not completely silent either. Almost completely silent but not 100% there. Compared to a regular track pad, silent is the correct word. Both VictorH and myself have a front PFC brake along with the stock rear rotor. It now gets hotter than the front but it's fine, no weird behavior |
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03-20-2018, 02:01 PM | #106 |
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Another anecdote to add, my ST40 355mm front kit and OE rears are doing great for me, no heat issues to complain of the way I have it setup. That said, it really upsets me when a new McLaren passes me at Mach-2 on the back straight at COTA and then over brakes before turning in. I leave 100's of yards when this happens but trust me the gap closes quickly, they over-brake without fail (air brake and all), and they always position themselves on the far right side of the track leaving me rumble strips, grass, and a wall as my only out. Be confident that stock and smaller BBK's are plenty capable but there is some extra piece of mind and safety margin that you get with the larger kits.
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03-20-2018, 02:07 PM | #107 | |
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03-20-2018, 02:13 PM | #108 |
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Frustrations like that are why the good Lord above created club racing
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03-20-2018, 03:06 PM | #109 | |
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Either way, I'm back to trying to acquire a Hard Motorsports brake cooling kit. Bimmerworld is doing some research to find out how much a set of replacement rings for the PFC DD rotors are (and how available). Certainly for race cars, we've had a set of spare rotors on hand. It would be nice. |
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