Wire Harness Thinning Thread

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Project_Rogue

We have a secret ABS that we have used for the past few years that runs very competitively against modern race ABS’s for a fraction of the price, which is also switchable on the fly for track conditions and sensitivity control.

i really wish the "GT4 ABS" was easier to obtain... lol

[roastbeef]

what is so good about gts abs?

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by Project_Rogue_Motorsport

The majority of MK100’s can take the GT4 mapping but it is none variable and cannot be changed on the fly.

GT4 ABS Part Number: 34517851297

That's the part number for the F80 M3, M4 ABS module. Is it the same part?

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Project_Rogue_Motorsport

The majority of MK100’s can take the GT4 mapping but it is none variable and cannot be changed on the fly.

GT4 ABS Part Number: 34517851297

so despite this being a F8X module.. it can be used on E9X ?

a few of us wondered about it a while back due to a E9X M3 GT4 ABS/DSC software offering

https://www.mk-motorsportteile.de/en...oftware-m3-e92

[amg6975]

The big question mark is going to be the CAN messaging vs the E90. I would be surprised if everything was exactly the same but weirder things have happened I guess.

If you were going full custom with some form of PDM and JBBF replacement and everything you may be able to adapt to whatever comes out of the DSC but then you have to try to align that with what the DME and DKG want to see.

If *all* of the CAN frame formats were available on both platforms it would be trivial to translate but I have no yet run across that info.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by Project_Rogue_Motorsport

This requires very special equipment to completely reprogram the ABS module. While not impossible, it would be difficult because the system uses FlexRay and would require the ICM as the tilt sensor.

The canbus would also not match u til you reprogrammed it.

I had similar issues getting systems to work in the early days of F-Models when going full PDM and standalone. This is because the ABS, ICM and EPS all work on FlexRay together, which makes things a tad difficult.

Has someone done this before to use the F8x ABS module on the E9x? Just curious on a rough estimate on costs for this type of work.

Being able to convert the F8x ABS module to the E9x is desirable since the used F8x ones are cheap (less than 90 USD) and plentiful. A new E9x ABS module (hydraulic and control units) is over 2800 USD.

[TheStevo1000]

Welll, I have a problem after removing lots of wiring and modules from my car now. Does anyone have some advice?
Codes are listed below.

--- The engine starts fine. Windshield wipers are always on. Brake lights are always on. Car won't shift into any gear, or neutral. Voltage is 12.9/13v with engine off, 14.1/14.2v with engine running. Battery is a (new) Antigravity Li-ion. (But also had same issue with factory battery).
I removed: all airbags and module, seats/seatbelts, radio/iDrive, all bluetooth/phone/GPS modules, TPMS module, complete HVAC system and controls, power door mirrors/locks/windows, and all wiring related to those. I did cut a lot of wires, but I'm 99% sure anything I cut was only connected to those modules I removed.

BimmerGeeks ProTool

Date: 05.22.24 07:02 PM

Vin: WBSWD93598PY41465
Chassis: E92
Model: M3
Engine: S65
Body Style: Coupe

****************** Errors ******************
--------------------------------------------
FAMILY [VARIANTE] | CODE: DESCRIPTION
--------------------------------------------

JBBF [JBBF70] | C90B: PT-CAN communication fault
JBBF [JBBF70] | C918: No message (wiper operation, 0x2A6), receiver JBE, transmitter FRM/SZL/LWS/IHKA

CAS [CAS] | A0B5: Fault, road speed signal
CAS [CAS] | A118: Roadspeed signal implausible

KOMBI [KOMB87] | A550: Message (speed, 0x1A0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
KOMBI [KOMB87] | 9317: Internal coding-data fault
KOMBI [KOMB87] | 931E: Manufacturer, coding-data fault
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AC: Message (distance travelled, 0x1A6) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AD: Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AF: Message (nominal road speed value, 0x200) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3B9: Sporadic fault (failure, DSC message, 0x19E) No repair measures available, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AA: No description found

FRM [FRM_70] | E59A: No message (yaw rate), receiver FRM, transmitter DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | E59C: No message (steering angle), receiver FRM, transmitter SZL/LWS/DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | 9CBA: Communication with LIN operator unit disturbed
FRM [FRM_70] | E599: No message (driving speed), receiver FRM, transmitter DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | E598: Message (low beam) missing, FRM receiver, RLS transmitter
FRM [FRM_70] | E597: No message from DSC control unit, receiver FRM, transmitter DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | E594: No message (steering angle), receiver FRM, transmitter SZL/LWS/DSC

[amg6975]

JBBF is the only thing that touches all of that but is probably more likely to be a ground issue or something silly.

It looks like an issue with F-CAN except for A3AD. Really hard to diagnose without know exactly what you did.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TheStevo1000

Welll, I have a problem after removing lots of wiring and modules from my car now. Does anyone have some advice?
Codes are listed below.

--- The engine starts fine. Windshield wipers are always on. Brake lights are always on. Car won't shift into any gear, or neutral. Voltage is 12.9/13v with engine off, 14.1/14.2v with engine running. Battery is a (new) Antigravity Li-ion. (But also had same issue with factory battery).
I removed: all airbags and module, seats/seatbelts, radio/iDrive, all bluetooth/phone/GPS modules, TPMS module, complete HVAC system and controls, power door mirrors/locks/windows, and all wiring related to those. I did cut a lot of wires, but I'm 99% sure anything I cut was only connected to those modules I removed.

BimmerGeeks ProTool

Date: 05.22.24 07:02 PM

Vin: WBSWD93598PY41465
Chassis: E92
Model: M3
Engine: S65
Body Style: Coupe

****************** Errors ******************
--------------------------------------------
FAMILY [VARIANTE] | CODE: DESCRIPTION
--------------------------------------------

JBBF [JBBF70] | C90B: PT-CAN communication fault
JBBF [JBBF70] | C918: No message (wiper operation, 0x2A6), receiver JBE, transmitter FRM/SZL/LWS/IHKA

CAS [CAS] | A0B5: Fault, road speed signal
CAS [CAS] | A118: Roadspeed signal implausible

KOMBI [KOMB87] | A550: Message (speed, 0x1A0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
KOMBI [KOMB87] | 9317: Internal coding-data fault
KOMBI [KOMB87] | 931E: Manufacturer, coding-data fault
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AC: Message (distance travelled, 0x1A6) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AD: Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AF: Message (nominal road speed value, 0x200) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3B9: Sporadic fault (failure, DSC message, 0x19E) No repair measures available, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AA: No description found

FRM [FRM_70] | E59A: No message (yaw rate), receiver FRM, transmitter DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | E59C: No message (steering angle), receiver FRM, transmitter SZL/LWS/DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | 9CBA: Communication with LIN operator unit disturbed
FRM [FRM_70] | E599: No message (driving speed), receiver FRM, transmitter DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | E598: Message (low beam) missing, FRM receiver, RLS transmitter
FRM [FRM_70] | E597: No message from DSC control unit, receiver FRM, transmitter DSC
FRM [FRM_70] | E594: No message (steering angle), receiver FRM, transmitter SZL/LWS/DSC

get in on the group buy that alex is doing...

[TheStevo1000]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

get in on the group buy that alex is doing...

Sorry, who is alex? Do you have a link?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TheStevo1000

Sorry, who is alex? Do you have a link?

i don't think there is an actual link, but alex runs sub2speedhouse on instagram. he is legit, send him a dm.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

get in on the group buy that alex is doing...

Group buy for what?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by okusa

Group buy for what?

He is organizing a “group buy” of a professional wiring guy from Europe to fly out and do some harnesses and programming for the e9x.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

He is organizing a “group buy” of a professional wiring guy from Europe to fly out and do some harnesses and programming for the e9x.

Well that's certainly interesting

[berns]

Hi guys.... Alex here.

Martyn, from Project Rogue, has already chimed in on this thread.
I'm trying organize a trip for him to come out in August, to Long Beach, CA, to handle harness thinning on my E92, as well as offer harness work for other E9x / F8x owners looking to shave weight, clean up their harnesses, as well as implement and wire up AIM dashes, etc, should someone want that.

While initial interest was in the teens, of course those actually willing to put a deposit down and commit is less. We've got some room still, and I'm happy to explain in more detail. Shoot me a message here or send an email to alex@sub2speedhouse.com for more info.

Cheers

[mikerunt]

Originally Posted by berns

Hi guys.... Alex here.

Martyn, from Project Rogue, has already chimed in on this thread.
I'm trying organize a trip for him to come out in August, to Long Beach, CA, to handle harness thinning on my E92, as well as offer harness work for other E9x / F8x owners looking to shave weight, clean up their harnesses, as well as implement and wire up AIM dashes, etc, should someone want that.

While initial interest was in the teens, of course those actually willing to put a deposit down and commit is less. We've got some room still, and I'm happy to explain in more detail. Shoot me a message here or send an email to alex@sub2speedhouse.com for more info.

Cheers

Email sent

[TheStevo1000]

Well, discovered the issue with my car/wiring. There's a pair of red & red/blue communication wires that run from front to back on passenger side - don't cut those!
Otherwise, I cut out everything related to all the removed modules, and had no problems.

[Vesrah]

Originally Posted by amg6975

The big question mark is going to be the CAN messaging vs the E90. I would be surprised if everything was exactly the same but weirder things have happened I guess.

If you were going full custom with some form of PDM and JBBF replacement and everything you may be able to adapt to whatever comes out of the DSC but then you have to try to align that with what the DME and DKG want to see.

If *all* of the CAN frame formats were available on both platforms it would be trivial to translate but I have no yet run across that info.

This thread is interesting since it comes up when searching about this kind of information the googles, unfortunately it seems some posts have been removed for whatever reason.

Anyway, the MK100 from the M2/3/4 seem to communicate over Flexray instead of CAN.

There is another deleted post in this thread that says something like:
"We have a secret ABS that we have used for the past few years that runs very competitively against modern race ABS’s for a fraction of the price, which is also switchable on the fly for track conditions and sensitivity control."

I am most interested about this. The MK60E5 from the Z4 GT3 car had a knob, but the price I have heard for the flash makes it a non-starter when you look at the price of a Conti RSX. Wish there was more info.

[Accel Junky]

Originally Posted by TheStevo1000

Well, discovered the issue with my car/wiring. There's a pair of red & red/blue communication wires that run from front to back on passenger side - don't cut those!
Otherwise, I cut out everything related to all the removed modules, and had no problems.

You saved my bacon. It looks like I cut out those wires and got the same issues that you did. Apparently, those are the PT-can communication route.

Those wires run from the passenger foot well to the EDC and then back again to the passenger foot well. If you cut out the EDC, you have to loop these wires together in the passenger foot well. Got rid of my dash DSc abs traction codes.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by TheStevo1000

Well, discovered the issue with my car/wiring. There's a pair of red & red/blue communication wires that run from front to back on passenger side - don't cut those!
Otherwise, I cut out everything related to all the removed modules, and had no problems.

I found out the hard way with this wire as well on my car. Cut that while thinning the harness and the wipers were stuck on, cluster didn't work, etc.

I believe that's the PTCAN wire, so it completes a lot of circuits - don't cut it!

[amg6975]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I found out the hard way with this wire as well on my car. Cut that while thinning the harness and the wipers were stuck on, cluster didn't work, etc.

I believe that's the PTCAN wire, so it completes a lot of circuits - don't cut it!

You can cut it you just have to make sure it has a continuous path from the JBBF to the FRM, and only branches off from that, which can only be a couple feet in length. CAN is a very interesting bus topology and anyone doing this job should understand it.

The issue is because of the stub length requirements it goes all the way to the back and then back up to the front so when you cut it you break the main path between the JBBF and FRM. It also goes through the firewall to stub off for the DCT, then comes back through the firewall, stubs off for the DME, which then goes back out through the firewall.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by amg6975

You can cut it you just have to make sure it has a continuous path from the JBBF to the FRM, and only branches off from that, which can only be a couple feet in length. CAN is a very interesting bus topology and anyone doing this job should understand it.

The issue is because of the stub length requirements it goes all the way to the back and then back up to the front so when you cut it you break the main path between the JBBF and FRM. It also goes through the firewall to stub off for the DCT, then comes back through the firewall, stubs off for the DME, which then goes back out through the firewall.

tangent, but can you splice can bus wire the DIY hack way or does it need proper connectors? i've always thought of it as a higher frequency signal wire and worried about trying to solder it together..