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01-09-2009, 02:12 PM | #67 | |
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Remember this isn't a noticeable fault like the DCT is suffering, or the engine failures that occurred to the E43 M3s, this is something that didn't affect the day to day running of the cars one single bit. |
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01-09-2009, 02:17 PM | #68 |
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01-09-2009, 02:49 PM | #72 |
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It is very interesting to see how different the perception is of certain brands in different countries.
BMW is very highly regarded in the US (with reason) but in Europe Audi is just as highly regarded if not more. (they are equal at least) I know for example that no respectable person would buy MB in Hungary because MB is regarded as a gypsies car. I think the general opinion of the brand is influencing people who has no first hand experience with a given car. (Just a side note.) |
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01-09-2009, 03:04 PM | #73 | |
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Here in the Netherlands the brand BMW stands for:Reckless Driving Arrogant Bastards, discotheque owners(though our prime minister drives a 760Li LOL) Mercedes stands for Bob the Builder Realestate guys Audi for the sensible choice but not yet on par with BMW and Mercedes(positively or negatively spoken) Saab/Volvo/Jaguar:Lawyers/Dentists/Architects whoever wants to be different. etc etc. |
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01-09-2009, 03:05 PM | #74 |
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They are two totally different cars to drive. I test drove both before I decided on the M3. I just didn't feel that the RS4 was worth the $72K sticker (or even $5K off that). The steering was heavy like the S8. It was very fast through some tight backroads (the only thing that scared me was the speed warning going off while really pushing the car in a 25mph zone), but the car had so much grip coming out of corners that it didn't feel like you could take it to the limit.
The M3 was going just as quickly up these roads but the acceleration felt more brutal and the steering felt more neutral. It was definitely more "scary" to drive and that gets the adrenaline pumping. My M3 is parked for the winter, but if I had gone with the RS4, I would be driving it now (with snow tires!).
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01-09-2009, 03:14 PM | #75 |
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I don't know why people are saying that the RS4 is slow, considering how close the performance figures are with the M3. Granted the M3 is quicker by 0.2 to 0.4 seconds, but i don't think that constitute the RS4 as being slow. On a road course on the other hand have shown how much quicker is the M3 around a track with twisties just by example of that episode from Top Gear when they compared the e92 M3, C63, and RS4 and the RS4 was 4 seconds slower than the M3. But then again, it is about 300lbs heavier with the AWD system. Other than that, all of the other mag comparison i've seen and read shows the RS4 is right there with the M3.
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01-09-2009, 03:31 PM | #76 |
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Most if not all the negative comments for Audi cars seem to come from the States and Canada, don't know if price has much of a bearing on this or whether it's a dealer network problem.
I have owned both brands (BMW & Audi) over the years and wouldn't place the ownership experience of either to better than the other. Likewise the driving experience is different though I would class one better than the other, they are just different. |
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01-09-2009, 05:10 PM | #77 | |
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That being said: The quite identical engine in the R8 4.2 doesn't seem to be overrated at all. Best regards, south
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01-09-2009, 07:04 PM | #78 | |
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BTW I still believe the only true proof of output is to gauge the acceleration figures based on the weight of the car which we already know. P.S. Many customers have been disappointed with the R8 as well, even though it seems to perform great against the competition. |
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01-09-2009, 07:22 PM | #79 | |
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Quite true foot.... Audi in Canada is strongly associated with VW, i.e. dealer network etc.....It is hard to go upscale shackled to the VW brand. VW and Audi had real big quality problems with the mk4 products, falling windows, electronics etc... And in the 1980's people think Audis accelerate by themselves and kill people....Audi never recovered from that. And they are slow and souless (is this my inside voice?).
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01-09-2009, 08:35 PM | #80 |
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I'm sure it's a bit of both. Unfortunately, their dealer networks are horrible in Florida. I'm not sure about the rest of the states, but over here I would say that there's only about one Audi dealership per every five or six MB/BMW dealerships. Can't say anything about pricing, since I've never inquired about anything except the S5 (which they were stubborn, understandably, considering it was brand new and limited at the time).
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01-09-2009, 09:07 PM | #81 | |
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The Audi RS4 gearing is shorter, yet same theoretical top speed. The Audi R8 gearing is even shorter again (3rd and 4th gears are very similar to the M3 DCT 3rd and 4th gears), yet same theoretical top speed as the M3. So you can still have the lazy 6th gear for cruising and have shorter gearing in between. |
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01-09-2009, 10:59 PM | #82 | |
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Today, I can get into my BMW dealer with a days notice and they drop me into a 335i loaner with a fresh starbucks coffee in my hand. I do end up visiting the dealer a lot in M cars, but at least it is easy. |
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01-10-2009, 01:41 AM | #83 | |
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01-10-2009, 03:18 AM | #84 | |
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I'm not saying the RS4 is quicker than the M3 - there is enough evidence that the M3 is the quicker car, my big sore point with the M3 is the manual transmission, especially having experienced the fabulous RS4 transmission. To me it's such a critical component of the overall equation that I personally cannot overlook when it comes to the M3 MT. |
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01-10-2009, 04:52 AM | #85 | ||
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This opinion of mine seems to mimic what Autocar got when they tested both cars. Quote:
Next example is while you wait at the Audi dealers you get offered a drink (latte for TB ) and a biscuit or cake with either a newspaper or the latest of Autocar or other car mag, in the BMW and Merc dealers you are just left to wait and only get offered something to eat or drink when the sales person takes you to a desk. All small things but make the whole experience that bit more special. But the nail in the coffin is asking for a test drive when they finally get an M3 in and never being rung back. After knowing for a month that they have a demo car in I ring to see if I could arrange a testdrive and ask to be put through to the saleman who deal with me before hand, he made all the excuses that they were very busy but seriously who many people are buying M3s, this was total bull shit and I told him to stick the car. I decided to go to a different BMW dealer and buy the car there. But this just shows how different two dealers can be, even ones owned by the same family. Will I be back to an Audi? Chances are that will happen in 2010 in either an RS5 or TT-RS but I can not say a single bad word about my M3 experience so far, the car is a joy to drive. |
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01-10-2009, 05:30 AM | #86 |
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There's no glaring weakspot in the gearing, so now we're talking about preference. I love the gearing on the M3, as I feel it best utilizes the power of the motor, which is quite simple since the power band is broad. I also have read nothing but praise from all the magazines and reviews, about how great the transmission is, (gearing included). To say the gearing is so bad, that you wouldn't consider the car is a bit of a surprise, as you're the first person I've heard with a complaint, (drag strip enthusiasts not included).
As far as Audi, in the U.S., Audi has done a great job of rebuilding the name. 10 years ago, the name was about as respectable as Yugo. They really build good looking, well built cars these days though. As far as reliablity I'm not sure, but if they are anything like the VW line, good luck. The employ some decent technology, but aside from the R8, they don't build sports cars. Every one of their "sports" cars is based on a front wheel drive. They attach a awd system and badge it quattro and magically its a sports car now. Sorry, but they don't have this guy fooled. Their cars are heavy, especially at the front wheels and slow. RS4 isn't much slower than a M3 = truth, but it does it with AWD. This is the fundamental flaw for me. More power, and AWD, and more money, and its still slower than a M3 in just about any performance test. This = Fail Audi makes good eye candy, but to the eye of a true enthusiast, there's much better choices out there. I do like the R8, but I'm still buying something else for the money.
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01-10-2009, 05:49 AM | #87 | |
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(Mind you I'm a ex 270BHP Audi S3 (Mk1)owner) |
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01-10-2009, 06:09 AM | #88 |
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Some people will never be convinced that awd is the most efficient way to drive quickly. I will not deny that the rwd chassis is usually more enjoyable but not always the case, I have always enjoyed rallying more so in an awd car than rwd.
One car in the Audi line up that did impress me most was the TT-S, I reckon the RS version will be a hoot to drive and could prove to be the next model after the R8 to prove Audi can build sportscars. |
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