Manual or DCT?

[elinstylez]

Just bought a 2011 m3 coupe zcp in 6mt. Been super bored driving my 2013 328i auto so I'm super excited to drive a fun car again. My previous manuals were a 2011 335i msport, 2005 s2000, and a 2006 Evo 9. Loved driving them all, even in LA traffic. Probably going to trade the m3 for an m2 eventually and of course it'll be manual. The day Bmw stops making manuals is the day I switch to another brand.

[sello]

Originally Posted by BGBF18

Haha, pretty much sums it up. I've offered GROWN men the opportunity to drive my M - only to see the look of embarrassment on their face when they admit they can't drive a manual. I just look through them like a disappointed dad...

I'm very dissapointed when I hear a man over 21 can't drive a manual.. told my 15 year old daughter she will learn to drive a manual on the m. To me one of the easiest manuals to drive.. ( not easy to perfect it just easy to drive )

[BGBF18]

Originally Posted by sello

I'm very dissapointed when I hear a man over 21 can't drive a manual.. told my 15 year old daughter she will learn to drive a manual on the m. To me one of the easiest manuals to drive.. ( not easy to perfect it just easy to drive )

I tend to agree. I've driven plenty of manuals in my days and I found the M3 stick to be quite enjoyable to drive. I came out of a G37S 6MT and while the G's throws were much shorter, the clutch engagement was unrefined and driving in city traffic made me insane. Drove the same traffic for over a year in the M and it was world's better in almost everyway (minus the long-ish throws).

[BGBF18]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Touché. I can't afford two either which is why I talked my old lady into buying one also. If you are in the Tampa area I'm in South Pasadena. No love for the M3 on this side of the bridge. We need to get a cruise going. DCT cars up front so that we don't accidentally smack your rear bumpers on take off.

Ha! Sounds good. I'll let you know when I'm down there again. Left in '16 and I'm stuck in SC for the moment. Man I miss those bridges and the triple digit speeds attained (or so I've heard...).

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by sello

I'm very dissapointed when I hear a man over 21 can't drive a manual.. told my 15 year old daughter she will learn to drive a manual on the m. To me one of the easiest manuals to drive.. ( not easy to perfect it just easy to drive )

I learned on a 92' Toyota Pickup. That was the easiest manual I have ever driven. I swear you could not stall that thing.

[Bucki14]

So many people have nailed the reasoning for the DCT! I'd say keep the DCT, just pairs so well with the cars engine behavior and was truly engineer for this car at launch. The manual, while fun just doesn't pair as well with the car as the DCT.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by sello

I'm very dissapointed when I hear a man over 21 can't drive a manual.. told my 15 year old daughter she will learn to drive a manual on the m. To me one of the easiest manuals to drive.. ( not easy to perfect it just easy to drive )

BMW advertises that the E9x M has a heavy duty clutch. I've noticed when the car is accidentally stalled while playing with it, it's not a violent shake. It's actually quite subtle. I drove a friend's scion 6MT and it was quite violent when it stalled.

[Zeus69]

6MT. Having said that, I've made some changes that have greatly improved the shift feel/action.

1) Autosolutions SSK
2) ZHP shift knob
3) Ultimate Clutch Pedal

Can't beat it.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by Zeus69

6MT. Having said that, I've made some changes that have greatly improved the shift feel/action.

1) Autosolutions SSK
2) ZHP shift knob
3) Ultimate Clutch Pedal

Can't beat it.

How much did all this cost including labor?

[shimmy23]

Originally Posted by Zeus69

6MT. Having said that, I've made some changes that have greatly improved the shift feel/action.

1) Autosolutions SSK
2) ZHP shift knob
3) Ultimate Clutch Pedal

Can't beat it.

fantastic hearing this!

i already have the shift knob and have the AS SSK\UCP sitting on the shelf. how difficult was the SSK install?

[Prefontaine]

Originally Posted by Zeus69

6MT. Having said that, I've made some changes that have greatly improved the shift feel/action.

1) Autosolutions SSK
2) ZHP shift knob
3) Ultimate Clutch Pedal

Can't beat it.

Awesome, I'm actually installing an autosolutions SSK now (went with a 20% reduction kit) and UCP now as well. Looking forward to driving it. Ron has been fantastic to work with.

[Zeus69]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

How much did all this cost including labor?

SSK ($400)
UCP ($295)
Shift knob and boot (~$150)

Labor was a "cash" deal with local shop I've trusted over the years that also did some routine maintenance work, so I don't have a clean breakdown. It was several hours of labor, so you should expect well into the "hundreds" of dollars. I didn't blink, totally worth it to me...

There are DIYs out there, but that's not my thing.

[Zeus69]

Originally Posted by Prefontaine

Awesome, I'm actually installing an autosolutions SSK now (went with a 20% reduction kit) and UCP now as well. Looking forward to driving it. Ron has been fantastic to work with.

Agree, a true artisan. Went with him after phone conversation and reading numerous reviews of other options out there for our cars (Rogue, UUC, Active Autowerke).

[Zeus69]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

fantastic hearing this!

i already have the shift knob and have the AS SSK\UCP sitting on the shelf. how difficult was the SSK install?

I'm not a DIYer, so no idea.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

If you're looking for a manual, get a Miata

Ha, I can't argue with that. The Miata's shift feel has spoiled me on almost any other manual.

Originally Posted by BGBF18

Plus: Words I've never said or heard a bro say "Oh cool, you went with the automatic...".

And I've never heard anyone ask for the slower option, yet here we are discussing 6MTs on M3s. It's almost like there are pros and cons to both.

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

I said "The dct is known to have leak issues and is expensive to replace."
Absolutely true..

Entire used transmissions are available for a couple grand.

Every dct owner can expect to have to do a dct service including new oil, new filters, new gasket, new dct pan if not before then at 100k miles. Of course some don't do it but except rough engagement when moving from a stop and gears getting skipped under load.

And a 6MT will probably need a clutch job before the DCT, so seems like a wash to me. And if a $2k repair is going to cause you much distress, I'd avoid BMWs (or anything from Germany, really) entirely.

Let see how much does a new dct cost :
GETBMWPARTS.com sell the dct for $ 11,794
All BMW dealers sell the dct for around $ 12,531

And almost nobody is going to replace with a brand new one.

There is no question the 6MT is more reliable than dct and most reasonable people would expect so because of added complexity, novelty and number of moving parts resulting in higher reliability risk.

If you disagree then show me factual evidence (not clowning) of manual gearbox having to be systematically repaired or replaced (not single owner abuse).

So you can just make claims like the one in bold, but demand factual evidence from anyone claiming otherwise?

"They outlast the 6MT clutch depending how you drive it" Utterly false, just plain malarkey.

My biggest concern with the DCT was clutch replacement, and I was pleasantly surprised to read very little about it, almost like it's not nearly as big of a deal as you say.

I like the exclusivity of the 6MT transmission. Being in the majority does not make you right but surely a good sheep.

That's literally the worst logic I've ever heard for choosing a transmission in a car.

Even if the dct was issue free -which it isn't- I would still enthusiastically recommend the conversion from dct to 6MT to the original poster. There are several people who made the switch before you. Don't take my word, talk to them, they were unanimous in how much more fun the 6MT is. But expect to get biased responses if you ask the question to a majority of dct owners.

"6MT owners are unanimous in how much more fun it is, but DCT owners are biased." See anything wrong with that statement?

Pick the transmission you like and enjoy it, but who cares what anyone else has?

Originally Posted by Honda

I have had both e90 DCT and e92 6MT and I can tell you that I was never in love with 6MT. It is just doesn't feel right. When I had DCT, I had a blast specially when downshifting.

For some reason the 6MT didn't feel awesome, specially 1st to 2nd gear shift. Unlike other cars I have driven including S2K and 911

Originally Posted by Shredicus

Some of these guys are acting like driving a manual is some lost art akin to weaving straw into gold. Why can this never be a civil discussion?

The e9x m3 honestly has a lackluster manual experience without replacing the entire shifter and clutch pedal assembly. Rubbery and vague.

Agreed. Every other sports car I've owned has had a manual, but I didn't like the 6MT in the E9x cars as much as I liked the Drivelogic system and the speed/sound of perfectly executed downshifts of the DCT. Heel/toeing and rev matching on a manual are indeed a lot of fun and I know how to do that in my other cars, but I'll never be able to do it as fast as the DCT. Why do so many people think I didn't buy the tranny I preferred?

I find it humorous how there's no shortage of people that deride the E93 with talk of lower performance but then vehemently defend the 6MT because of things like 'feelings' and 'my neighbor might not think the DCT is as macho as the 6MT'.

[Prefontaine]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

fantastic hearing this!

i already have the shift knob and have the AS SSK\UCP sitting on the shelf. how difficult was the SSK install?

I'm working on it now, a little bit each day. I'll let you know when I'm done how difficult it was.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

I find it humorous how there's no shortage of people that deride the E93 with talk of lower performance but then vehemently defend the 6MT because of things like 'feelings' and 'my neighbor might not think the DCT is as macho as the 6MT'.

Is there something fun about driving a car with a comparatively soft chassis? I don't happen to think so. I like fun in my cars---a mixture of driver involvement, theatrics (ie, exhaust noise, engine sound), and a sound chassis. Those items to me make a car exciting to own. You will note that fastest around a track or fastest to X mph is not listed. I'm sure the e93 folks will talk about the joy of open top driving and being able to better hear the car. If that's what gives them the best experience in the car, then I can't really complain. However, I have less respect for the opinion that the "DCT is fastest, so it must be best" perspective. None of these cars are race cars and anyone who is driving for actual money aren't driving an e9x in any guise. And if they are, I'm sure they would choose the DCT.

I also think it's funny that people are bagging on the feel of the e9x M3 manual transmission. I have news for y'all. BMW has never made an excellent feeling gearbox. When one talks about the best feeling gearboxes ever made, I don't think I've ever seen a single BMW listed. Meh... I still enjoy going through the gears despite not being the epitome of manual transmission feel. Frankly, neither does Porsche make a great feeling manual. I didn't find the 997 shifter feel any better than our cars. And yet, Porsche decided to go back to offering a manual in the 991.2 GT3. People like what they like, it's really just that simple.

[jlo0109]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

Tough guy here arguing paragraphs over the internet. It must be hard to compensate for something you lack in I didn't bother this wall of text, as you never understood my paragraph. Maybe because I'm some highschooler oh boy I'm so riled up now.

Look buddy, what you seem to not get it this, people choose 6MT or DCT because of preference. I got the DCT when I could've easily bought the 6MT. I prefer the convenience, reliability, and how fun it can be. I've owned plenty of 6MT cars, nothing special about them bud, that's why the 6MT is being phased out, as well as the DCT.

But I forgot, I am not superior enough to state the fact that some people don't care for the 6MT or don't find it as fun. Sorry master Joe Schmo of the 6MT m3s. Have fun rowing your gears while I "click" them away on my "unreliable" DCT

You're a highschooler and you've already been through "plenty" of manuals? Impressive.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

All I can add to this is dreaming about the M3 when I was younger I always really wanted DCT because of paddles and video game driving but then when I got my 330ci in manual oh damn it was so fun.

Manual is amazing if I were in your situation I would get the manual.

[Montaver]

Depends how your using the car, difficult to say without knowing that. However the DCT sounds like a better sorted car, personally I wouldn't swap.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

Is there something fun about driving a car with a comparatively soft chassis?

As the result of being able to drop the roof? Sure, lots of us feel that a small sacrifice in performance is worth getting something that feels better to us. Sound familiar?

I don't happen to think so. I like fun in my cars---a mixture of driver involvement, theatrics (ie, exhaust noise, engine sound), and a sound chassis. Those items to me make a car exciting to own. You will note that fastest around a track or fastest to X mph is not listed. I'm sure the e93 folks will talk about the joy of open top driving and being able to better hear the car. If that's what gives them the best experience in the car, then I can't really complain. However, I have to respect that opinion more than the "DCT is fastest, so it must be best" perspective. None of these cars are race cars and anyone who is driving for actual money aren't driving an e9x in any guise. And if they are, I'm sure they would choose the DCT.

Right, it's the same argument--that's exactly my point. Hell, I could argue that if 'theatrics' are desirable and sheer speed on a track or 0-60 times aren't a concern, the E93 is the car to get for enjoying engine/exhaust sounds.

I also think it's funny that people are bagging on the feel of the e9x M3 manual transmission. I have news for y'all. BMW has never made an excellent feeling gearbox. When one talks about the best feeling gearboxes ever made, I don't think I've ever seen a single BMW listed. Meh... I still enjoy going through the gears despite not being the epitome of manual transmission feel.

Not bagging on it--drive what makes you happy. To be clear, I'm simply pointing out that there's a group of people that will argue in favor of getting a 6MT because 'feelings' in spite of it's 'reduced' performance, and then not blink an eye at bagging on E93 owners that made a similar choice.

Frankly, neither does Porsche make a great feeling manual. I didn't find the 997 shifter feel any better than our cars. And yet, Porsche decided to go back to offering a manual in the 991.2 GT3. People like what they like, it's really just that simple.

I agree on the Porsche manuals not having the best feeling. I happened to choose mine as a manual when the alternative was the Tiptronic, but as of the 997.2s existence I would have taken the PDK. There's no right or wrong answer.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by sello

I'm very dissapointed when I hear a man over 21 can't drive a manual.. told my 15 year old daughter she will learn to drive a manual on the m. To me one of the easiest manuals to drive.. ( not easy to perfect it just easy to drive )

Over here (Sweden) it's not possible to obtain drivers license with an auto box. Driving schools are all using manuals as well as final tests. Hence everybody here driving a car know all about manual gear boxes. Which doesn't prevent the M-DCT together with the S65 to be a blast!