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07-04-2019, 02:30 PM | #67 | |
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07-04-2019, 03:54 PM | #68 | |
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07-04-2019, 10:38 PM | #69 | |
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But I digress. I'm glad you liked sum of the parts of the electric steering setup in the F80, it's not for me and I wouldn't trade an E92 for an F80. It's a terrible proposition dynamically and aesthetically, so say nothing of its disappointing turbo motor. Trust me I'm not blind to the shortcomings of the E92 (the weight is terrible and it can use a bit more torque) so I guess the dilemma is fun and engagement (E92) vs speed and performance (F80) assuming one is actually skilled enough to extract the extra performance... |
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07-04-2019, 11:00 PM | #70 |
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apples vs oranges.. however, you'll most likely never get a santorini e92 m3 back if you ever have a change of heart.
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07-05-2019, 01:22 AM | #71 | |
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07-05-2019, 12:23 PM | #72 | |
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The F80Z communicates wonderfully via the chassis. The rear end, in particular, translates in very high resolution through the driver's seat. You can feel exactly what the rear tires are doing and this gives immense confidence with so much grunt. Combine the solid mounted rear end, suspension that feels like it's bolted to the chassis via hiem joints and the micrometer-precise steering and you have an M3 that blows every previous M3 out of the water in terms of road handling. Again, completely disagree on the motor. The S55 is way more responsive and thrilling than the S65 about ~75% of the time.... and that 75% is all around usefulness in the real world. So, it's usually a significantly more rewarding experience. It's also about twice as powerful feeling in the real world.... HUGE difference in butt dyno output. This does NOT make the S65 a bad motor, just that the S55 is much better in many ways. However, to be fair, the other 25% is where the S65 really, really shines. If you live above 6k rpm then the S65 is one of the most thrilling experiences in the automotive world - blows the S55 out of the water. Below about 5k, the S65 is pretty "meh" in reality. This does NOT make the S55 a "disappointment", just that it trades this for that. You give some to get some. So, it is not that one is better or worse. Rather, each have their strengths and thus require different driving styles and thus appeal to different sides of my "enthusiast heart". But I do agree in general that the E92 M3 leans more towards feel/soul/character (with good performance) while the F8X leans (heavily) towards precision and performance (with adequate feel/soul/character).
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Current - 2022 540XI M Sport, BSM/Black Sold - many M3s and an M4 Last edited by EricSMG; 07-05-2019 at 12:29 PM.. |
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07-05-2019, 01:27 PM | #73 |
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Sorry let me rephrase that, most of my friends have... A friend of mine even sold his M4GTS to back to a Dakar Yellow E92 Individual M3.
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07-05-2019, 02:03 PM | #74 | |
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An example of this is the original NA S2000. The F20C engine, used from 1999 to 2003, was truly a race engine. You had to run it above 6000 (VTEC only kicked in at 6000 lol) to be quick. Red-line was 9000. Peak power was at 8300. Peak torque was 7500... Unfortunately, it had no torque at all when driven like a grocery-getter. As a result of the complaints, Honda changed the NA S2000's engine to a F22C. This 2.2L version red-lined at 8200RPM, produced nominally more HP and torque but the entire power band was shifted to the left. Peak torque was made at 6500 now... I think the S2000's NA engine change was as a result of most NA drivers wanting the feeling of a big block V8. This is certainly true with cars being produced today. The new M3/M4 produces peak torque at 1850. The M5 produces peak torque at 1500-2200, depending on specific S63 engine model. The new Corvette produces 715 ftlb @ 3600 ffs (above 500 ftlb at 2500). The new AMG 5.5L bi-turbo produces 664 ftlb at 2000. Contrast this to previous M engines peak-torque/red-line: S14: 4600-4900/7300. S52: 3800/7000. S54: 4900/8000. S65: 3750/8400. If customers demand high torque at low RPM, then the manufactures will deliver. Unfortunately, this tends to sterilize the experience as you no longer need the revs to make power from small engines. Anyway, different people want different things. Personally, I love the wide revving range of my S65. If I really wanted low end torque, I would buy another 335d and modify the hell out of it. Or buy a Corvette, Hellcat, Camaro SS, M5, GT-R etc. Different strokes for different folks, and that is why the world is an interesting place to live. However, the writing is on the wall. Emission regulations are killing large displacement NA engines. I suspect it will not be long before there are no NA performance engines to choose from. At least I get to enjoy a high revving V8 for a while. Thanks BMW. Cheers,
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07-05-2019, 09:00 PM | #75 | ||
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As for grip, I've driven many F80s and it seems they can't put down their power efficiently. It appears that too much torque is the problem. By comparison, my 911 has less torque but insane levels of mechanical grip weaved in predictable, progressive acceleration that only naturally aspirated engines can deliver. It almost makes you forgive the electric steering. Look I dislike the F generation, it's the false prophet. Then again it's an E9X forum what's to be expected? A good analogy would be for us to go to Saudi Arabia and argue in favor of Christianity...not gonna end well. Glad you're getting back into an E92...at current price levels it's clearly the superior choice! |
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