What cars outperform our M3 and have better avg MPG?

[James T. Kirk]

So let me get this straight, you want to trade in your M3 at heavy depreciation to buy another car around $100K just because you want to have slightly better MPG?

There is no equivalent to a M3 that's going to give you significantly better MPG that will bridge the money you're going to waste.

If you like your M3, but somehow sensitive to the cost of gas, just go get yourself the new 328i, stick on some M3 badges and hire a guy to sit in the backseat and yell "VROOM! VROOM!" so you can still have the sound of a V8. THAT would be more efficient that what you're suggesting.

If you just want to change cars, then cop to it. Focusing on the difference of a few miles to the gallon seems silly.

[YUN]

I think that M3 has a great MPG, yes I just said it
Compare to my past 06 330i it's about 1.5-2 MPG difference, same with my coworkers 335xi. For performance this car delivers MPG isnt bad at all, I get about 18.3 average.

[romanvn106]

gtr and the new c63

[BMWBoss]

Originally Posted by richpuer

Nothing out there drives like a BMW period.

+1

[Dok Henz]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

... hire a guy to sit in the backseat and yell "VROOM! VROOM!" so you can still have the sound of a V8 ...

+1.5



But seriously, carlfan, I've been wondering something along the same lines, particularly with regard to the 997C2 or 997C2S. A good friend of mine with a similar driving style owned a 996C2 and consistently got >20 mpg.

Since I plan to lease my cars from here on out (tax reasons), the incremental monthly costs between the 997S and M3 shrink a little - and perhaps the fuel costs would make up for the difference...

Of course, I'm not considering insurance or maintenance costs, so maybe I should just STFU? (just to pre-emptively flame myself before the others do).

Dok

[VictorH]

So OP says he wants better mileage presumably to save fuel costs. Says drives mostly short trips.

Lets assume then he drives 8,000 miles per year. At 13 mpg this will consume 615 gallons of premium.

Now lets trade this in on the new Porsche active hybrid GT3 race car or other car with amazing performance and gas mileage. This new vehicle gets 40 mpg. This vehicle will consume 200 gallons of fuel.

Net savings = 615-200 = 415 gallons per year at approx $3.95 per gallon of premium (your prices may vary) give you a cost savings of $1,639 per year. You're not going to find this car and your fuel savings will be even less. Even if you "trade up" to 20 mpg this only nets you $840 per year in savings. Is it worth it?

[ersin]

Originally Posted by mot

GTR!

What you save in gas with the GTR will be more than offset with maintenance costs.

If practicality is not important, both the Z06 and ZR1 are faster and have better mpg. Then there is Porsche. In either case, more initial $$$ layout than the M3 and probably more in maintenance too.

I'm pretty sure the C63 gets worse mpg than the M3.


Cheers.

[Dok Henz]

Originally Posted by VictorH

So OP says he wants better mileage presumably to save fuel costs. Says drives mostly short trips.

Lets assume then he drives 8,000 miles per year. At 13 mpg this will consume 615 gallons of premium.

Now lets trade this in on the new Porsche active hybrid GT3 race car or other car with amazing performance and gas mileage. This new vehicle gets 40 mpg. This vehicle will consume 200 gallons of fuel.

Net savings = 615-200 = 415 gallons per year at approx $3.95 per gallon of premium (your prices may vary) give you a cost savings of $1,639 per year. You're not going to find this car and your fuel savings will be even less. Even if you "trade up" to 20 mpg this only nets you $840 per year in savings. Is it worth it?

+1.

Thanks VictorH, exactly the type of calculation that I needed to see... especially when taken the logical limits of fuel economy.

Decision confirmed. '11.5 ZCP DCT it is!

Dok

[dibxna]

i probably average around 13-14 mpg and i do a little combo of city and light hwy driving. you definitely shouldnt have picked up an m3 if you were worried about gas mileage. even suv's nowadays can beat our gas mileage because of the ability to drop to 4 cylinders as they cruise... you buy this car as an enthusiast and as an enthusiast you dont care so much for the mpg but more for the feel of the car to your driving taste.

Everyone is going to have an opinion of which car may be better or out perform the m3 or be a better bargain for your dollar... when it comes down to it I chose this car not because of what it cost. not because of what mpg it gets. but because since i was old enough to appreciate cars and even more when i was of age to drive them the m3 was a technological and mechanical masterpiece in so many different ways and the warranty having maintenance covered for 4 years from bmw only speaks to their confidence in build quality that it was left only to me to be a smart enough and good enough driver to be able to grace the wheel and pedals with my presence.

ok maybe a little carried away but in all reality vegas is a pretty tightly packed city anywhere you are going so there isnt many places to let it loose unless youre driving to LA or PHX or one of the other 5 or so hour away destinations. You may as well sell the m3 and pick up 2 different rides. a hyundai genesis coupe gives u a little pep and probably pushes 20+ mpg and a vespa for those crowded late night strip runs you are making to try and get your bubbly on.

[dibxna]

Originally Posted by Dok Henz

+1.5



But seriously, carlfan, I've been wondering something along the same lines, particularly with regard to the 997C2 or 997C2S. A good friend of mine with a similar driving style owned a 996C2 and consistently got >20 mpg.

Since I plan to lease my cars from here on out (tax reasons), the incremental monthly costs between the 997S and M3 shrink a little - and perhaps the fuel costs would make up for the difference...

Of course, I'm not considering insurance or maintenance costs, so maybe I should just STFU? (just to pre-emptively flame myself before the others do).

Dok

before buying my m3 i did insurance comparisons of more cars than my insurance guy probably liked... but i got a quote on an 08 997 turbo and my 09 e90 m3... they actually werent too terribly different... say a couple hundred dollars per year. in the grand scheme of how much the car payment is a couple extra hundred for the year for my insurance is a drop in the bucket.

maintenance wise its the same basic thing. porsche does a full changeout of brake pads and rotors as well as tires and any mechanical piece not in GREAT condition for their CPO vehicles and (according to my porsche guy) they need an oil change every 15,000 miles and it would run likely 150-250 depending if it was done at the dealership or if i had one of the local tuning places do it with a different oil of choice. yeah the porsche went faster so youd probably use more brake pads up... yeah the tires will last less than 20k miles on either car and cost about the same for either... but theres ways to save... bmw dealers quote 416 dollars per tire for the pilot sport run flats. you can get the same tire for about 100 less by going to discount tire who happens to price match tirerack.com.

I dunno... i think its a little hard to guess at these because my first bmw was a 323i that was only a couple years used at the time when i was younger and it was a nightmare needing to be constantly serviced and yet i had friends with the same car who never needed anywhere near the same maintenance i did so it sometimes is dependent on your car and if its pre owned the previous drivers driving habbits.

[BMRLVR]

Nissan GTR

C6 Corvette

C6 Corvette ZO6

C6 Corvette ZR1

Mustang GT 5.0 (Virtually equal performance numbers, better MPG and nearly half the money)

Mustang GT500

CTS-V

Porsche 997.2 C2S

Porsche 997.2 C2 (very slightly better performance but better mileage

If all you are worried about is straight line speed and fuel mileage, the M3 is not the ideal car. The beauty of the M3 is that it performs well and can easily be a daily driven car or an only vehicle. Also it is the only car above you could use to cart the kids around since it is the only one available with 4 doors.

[duk]

CTS-V has 4 doors

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by duk

CTS-V has 4 doors

I feel stupid now!!!

Nothing worse than trying to make a point and making yourself look stupid!!!

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

So let me get this straight, you want to trade in your M3 at heavy depreciation to buy another car around $100K just because you want to have slightly better MPG?

There is no equivalent to a M3 that's going to give you significantly better MPG that will bridge the money you're going to waste.

If you like your M3, but somehow sensitive to the cost of gas, just go get yourself the new 328i, stick on some M3 badges and hire a guy to sit in the backseat and yell "VROOM! VROOM!" so you can still have the sound of a V8. THAT would be more efficient that what you're suggesting.

If you just want to change cars, then cop to it. Focusing on the difference of a few miles to the gallon seems silly.

You are one funny dude!

[carlfan]

VictorH (appreciate the actual numerical calculations)

dibxna (interesting facts about insurance and maintenance)

BMRLVR (thanks for the list of cars)

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

So let me get this straight, you want to trade in your M3 at heavy depreciation to buy another car around $100K just because you want to have slightly better MPG?

There is no equivalent to a M3 that's going to give you significantly better MPG that will bridge the money you're going to waste.

If you like your M3, but somehow sensitive to the cost of gas, just go get yourself the new 328i, stick on some M3 badges and hire a guy to sit in the backseat and yell "VROOM! VROOM!" so you can still have the sound of a V8. THAT would be more efficient that what you're suggesting.

If you just want to change cars, then cop to it. Focusing on the difference of a few miles to the gallon seems silly.

I know that depreciation is the obvious asumption when talking about trade ins, but I never said that I would be losing any money by trading it in.

A 328 isn't what I'm looking for since its not faster, and that was my original question. If I do go the route of putting an M3 badge on a 328, should I also put on a VTEC sticker? That's just as ridiculous.

[NYCMCBM3]

Gtr Is Cool

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by carlfan

Wouldn't a 335 that beats an M3 in straight line acceleration (via chip for instance) , have much worse fuel efficiency than it originally came with from the factory?

No. This is because the 335 is turbocharged. If you drive normal without dipping heavily into boost, then you will get the same gas mileage. You may get even better gas mileage because the higher performance allows you to use shorter bursts of acceleration to get up to a certain speed. This was true in a modded turbocharged car I had and some with supercharged M3s report the same experience.

Turbos are also what allows cars like the 911TT to have exceptional performance w/ relatively good gas mileage.

Now, if you're constantly flooring it to redline and doing top speed runs, then a modded 335 will probably get even worse gas mileage than the M3. Same goes for that 911TT. Try a top speed run in that car and I'm sure you'll dip into the 8mpg range real fast.

Another thing to consider... with 335i tunes like the Vishnu Procede V4/5, it has different maps including a zero boost valet mode. However, I don't think it yields any significant gains in gas mileage over stock in normal driving.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Another thing to consider... with 335i tunes like the Vishnu Procede V4/5, it has different maps including a zero boost valet mode. However, I don't think it yields any significant gains in gas mileage over stock in normal driving.

That's probably because in normal driving, you're not using the turbo anyways. Turbo gets in the picture when you want to accelerate (in which case there is more gas burned in the engine, more flow generated in the exhaust, and the turbo kicks in).

[carlfan]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

No. This is because the 335 is turbocharged. If you drive normal without dipping heavily into boost, then you will get the same gas mileage. You may get even better gas mileage because the higher performance allows you to use shorter bursts of acceleration to get up to a certain speed. This was true in a modded turbocharged car I had and some with supercharged M3s report the same experience.

Turbos are also what allows cars like the 911TT to have exceptional performance w/ relatively good gas mileage.

Now, if you're constantly flooring it to redline and doing top speed runs, then a modded 335 will probably get even worse gas mileage than the M3. Same goes for that 911TT. Try a top speed run in that car and I'm sure you'll dip into the 8mpg range real fast.

Another thing to consider... with 335i tunes like the Vishnu Procede V4/5, it has different maps including a zero boost valet mode. However, I don't think it yields any significant gains in gas mileage over stock in normal driving.

Very interesting and thanks for the clarification.

[scheherazade]

Good luck test driving a GT-R.
Dealers are very reluctant to let people take one out.

Some folks have gotten a test drive, but the vast majority have simply gotten an existing GT-R owner to give them a spin.

Check nagtroc.com and find someone willing to show it to you.

All in all, it's a decent car. Good performance out of the box. Good comfort.

I expected a very 'sporty car', but after a while I realized that it was 'ok sporty' and 'ok comfortable'. I'd say, 85% of the comfort I want, and 85% of the fun I want. If it was a hair quieter, and had a manual, it'd be a home run.




MPG wise, the modified 335 I had before had much better MPG - given the horsepower/straight-line-performance.
335 : 0-60 in the 4 second range, with 25mpg average
GT-R : 0-60 in the 3.5 second range, with 17mpg average



MPG does matter to me, but it's just a tie breaker.
eg. if all other stats are the same, I'll pick the better mpg.

Either way, I care about it.
I liken it to shoes.

I can buy a new pair of shoes every time I get a scuff. Who cares, they're trivially cheap. Why even bother to whipe them off...

But it doesn't mean I won't feel bad throwing away the otherwise perfectly fine old pair.

-scheherazade

[MonteCarloM3]

New 2012 GT-R will have 530hp. it'll smoke pretty much anything out there with sub-3 second 0-60.

[dibxna]

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

New 2012 GT-R will have 530hp. it'll smoke pretty much anything out there with sub-3 second 0-60.

are they still being huge sticks in the mud on the warranty though?

they said to me flat out at my dealer "if you are tracking your gt-r you are voiding your warranty" so what the f is the point in buying it if you can only drive a 500+ horsepower beast on public streets and go real damn fast up to 40mph for the speed limit? oh and if you "launch" the gt-r that records into the blackbox on deck in the car and they void your warranty for that as well. so again... wtf is the point of making this car if you wont allow us to use features you incorporated into its production and built it with racing heritage but wont let us track it?

oh and ps... to get the maintenance warranty where they have more or less a pit crew to replace tires and brakes and rotors... they wanted an additional 15k on top of the already higher sticker price. so overall it was just short of 100k out the door for a nissan. just hard to allow myself to buy this car and be told i cant track it or launch it (which i dont care about launch but tracking is a bit more important) and i would void my warranty if i did when i have bmw and porsche whispering in my ear that they encourage me to join their national bmw and porsche clubs so that I am able to take part in track days... go figure.

oh and for the test drive thing...

first day i showed up to look they started the car. they pulled it out. they asked me if i would like to drive it.

second day i showed up there was an entirely different group of people and they said "well we only let those people test drive it who are serious. we mean really serious. and we'd need to know that you are that serious before we'd allow you" so i looked at the guy and asked him "i'm here asking you questions about pricing and warranty. what about that tells you i'm NOT serious?" so i ended up throwing nissan out the door all together because lets face it... sales people used to selling a 20,000 dollar vehicle are going to for sure treat an 80k vehicle like its made out of platinum and lined with 5 carat diamonds inside and out because of how different it costs compared to what they are used to.