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12-20-2010, 04:04 PM | #67 |
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12-20-2010, 04:30 PM | #68 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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12-20-2010, 04:41 PM | #69 | |
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I see BMW coming out with one hell of an engine for this car.
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12-20-2010, 04:42 PM | #70 |
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What is BMW going to do with their M3 racing programs, if the M3 goes to a FI 6-cylinder. Take ALMS for example, what are the regulations in GT2 pertaining to powerplants? Their isn't any manufacturers running FI in the GT2 class.
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12-20-2010, 05:06 PM | #71 | |
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Like I said, 0-60 and price are not necessarily explicitly causal but they are correlated (within categories). A different thought is that the next m3 will get performance very similar to the e60 m5. It's like we're one performance generation removed from the big brother in the line up. |
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12-20-2010, 05:16 PM | #72 | |
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My best guess is it will be around the 4.1-4.3 0-60 times. I highly doubt the BMW published value for it will break 4.0. Even though it would be lighter and up on power (and torque hopefully), I don't see it being in the 3's. Who knows... maybe they will offer a tuned and dieted M3 like a true CSL should be. |
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12-20-2010, 05:17 PM | #73 | |
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If the new M5 is going to be used for any type of guidance I personally think M5 HAS TO have (way) more than 550HP...It needs to utterly DESTROY the CTS-V.
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12-20-2010, 05:28 PM | #74 |
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Slightly off topic, but I always wondered this about fuel economy. Since the main driving reason for BMW is to be green, I thought I'd ask this question here. Forgive my lack of knowledge.
A V8 engine is two I4 engines bolted together in V shape. Could it be possible to use only one of the I4 banks for let say cruising? If possible, I think that'll be 'green'. We'd have the full V8 for normal usage. And manually or automatically (which can even be programmed in to M drive), we can switch to single I4 mode for high way cruising...
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12-20-2010, 05:30 PM | #75 | ||
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The reason is pretty obvious when you take a GT3 motor apart- every time they added power they also added weight. That flat power curve? Bolt on variocam and a three stage intake. Bolt on emissions controls, water jackets for pistons, water passages and water pumps, etc, each with it's own separate castings and bolts. So the newest GT3 motor is also the heaviest. In contrast to Porsche's slow evolution, BMW has been pushing engine technology every generation of M3. Using clean-sheet design they were able to make the S65 V8 33 lbs lighter than the S54 it replaced while still gaining over 80 hp. They've been pushing the use of lighter materials, and advanced concepts like valvetronic. The result is an engines that are both more advanced and have higher power to weight ratios than their porsche counterparts; I know some porsche race engine designers and the freely admit to this. Of course this is about to change, and the CGT reminds us of what Porsche can do when they put their mind to it. Porsche will drop a huge amount of weight from the tail of the car with a clean-sheet design when they go to the next gen GT3 motor while still gaining power. In the end that's why you mess with success... My original point was not to sell BMW engineers short here- they are on the very cutting edge on engine design, and we've seen what they can do as well. When they don't blow motors up, that is (early S54s, etc)...
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12-20-2010, 05:33 PM | #76 | |
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BMW M has consistently bested other manufacturers efforts at the track with less hp (particularly AMG). I don't expect the M5 vs. CTS-V to be any different. Even if it has a bit more power than the CTS-V its overall chassis excellence will give it better track performance.
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12-20-2010, 05:50 PM | #77 |
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I think what's key to remember is that the next generation M will have enormous tuning potential (nothing like a turbocharged car from the factory), so with a simple software flash, 3.7 sec 0-60 times and 11 sec 116+mph traps will be easily attainable
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12-20-2010, 05:55 PM | #78 |
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Audi has a 400 hp 2.5L turbo I-5 in their Quattro Coupe concept. I predict a 475 hp turbo I-7 in the M3!
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12-20-2010, 06:00 PM | #79 |
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Some justification for the weight numbers in the OP.
Audi R8 GT vs. standard R8 weight savings: This was a big thrust toward weight reduction for this variant, more so than a big power or torque bump. They achieved: -Seats: 69 lb -Lightweight carpet: 17 lb -Thinner windshield glass: 20 lb -CF hood , bumpers and side "blades": 29 lb -Battery: 21 lb -Intake and sound insulation: 11 lb -Carbon ceramic brakes: 20 lb This already totals almost 190 lb, well above the upper limit of the number I've estimated for the M3 reductions. Of course I'm pretty sure the next gen M3 is not going to get CC brakes, but either way the numbers I have posted are totally realistic.
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12-20-2010, 06:07 PM | #80 | |
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12-20-2010, 06:23 PM | #82 | |
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12-20-2010, 06:33 PM | #83 | |
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They can no longer make a limited model like the E46 GTR V8, as the rules do not allow it. |
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12-20-2010, 07:20 PM | #84 | |
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12-20-2010, 07:23 PM | #85 | |
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I agree though that BMW does make some of the best engines and does push the design envelope. Last edited by devo; 12-21-2010 at 05:36 AM.. |
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12-20-2010, 08:24 PM | #86 |
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We're not going to get a stripped down lightweight m3, at least not as mainstream models. Too many ppl want their luxo goodies and gadgets! We'll be lucky if we see really lightweight more dedicated comp model.
we'll be lucky if the next gen M3 is around the same weight as current gen.
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12-20-2010, 08:28 PM | #87 | |
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Nothing is firm until the final release, but you can read into a bit more. From your argument, then your following post about what you speculate is also bullshit. When we are looking something pre-release, really we are doing so for our entertainment, but I feel that putting what's being said, plus business case scenarios like you did, will give us a very good picture. I know we had hopes for M to come up with a new engine, they have already deviate from their previous with regards to engine in the 1M. The M5, a very iconic car from the line up is recycling the engine from the X5M/6M. I believe the next M cars - it will have a unique piece with their engine, it will not be a completely new engine from the ground up. I am sure there will be innovations with the M3 engine than the 1M, but I do feel it will be an evolution of the N55, while still addressing the competitions. BMW has indicated that they are moving towards more weight savings than power, so may be it would be more accurate to look at the power/weight ratio than just horse power alone.
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12-20-2010, 08:51 PM | #88 |
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160 lb. driver??? I've got to lose some weight... sigh.
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