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07-02-2008, 02:54 PM | #67 | |
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Pushing forward for upshifts and pulling back for downshifts is so wrong in every way..... So against the standards set by DTM, F1....heck I would still love to have a column based sequential shifter like the touring cars of the 1990s. Then there is Chrysler using left and right for upshifts and down....this is not even worth commenting. I also hate the Step paddleshifters.
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07-02-2008, 02:55 PM | #68 | |
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-02-2008, 02:58 PM | #69 |
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I know, really........
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-10-2008, 10:46 AM | #71 |
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Love the new MK2, and have always had a fondness for the the P car. I think the MDCT is more intuitive than the new PDK, but for the clutchless fans like myself Im glad that they offer it. I never really cared for the tip on the 997. I still believe that the next step for the M driver is the P. Especially in light of the new 998 or 991 whatever they call it coming out in a few years. For the sake of aesthetics the 911 is a Pure form with a great lineage. The M is a contemporary all around great car.
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07-10-2008, 12:40 PM | #72 | |
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Couldn't have phrase it better. The new DI engine doesn't have a dip in the torque band like the old one. Also, its efficiency is simply amazing |
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07-10-2008, 12:42 PM | #73 |
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07-10-2008, 03:28 PM | #74 |
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I don't deny the M3's powerband is more linear, whereas the 911S DI engine seems to have a step up in delivery after 4000rpm.
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07-10-2008, 04:35 PM | #75 |
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Uh, it is a smaller motor with 2 less cylinder than the M3 yet it produces more peak torque at lower revs. The M3 curve may appear more broad, but it is a longer powerband. Either way, it is a testament to Porsche engineering they can produce more torque with a smaller 6 cylinder.
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07-10-2008, 04:40 PM | #76 | |
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Because it has bigger cylinders....and all of this this doesn't matter unless you are cruising on a highway or putting around. The only thing that matters for performance cars is the torque in the last 3000 rpm of the rev range.
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07-10-2008, 05:28 PM | #77 | |
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The specific torque output (torque per liter) is indeed impressive. This is exactly what the DI is providing. The plateau in torque in the 997 is nice but the way it falls off at high rpm is not good. It is a larger % drop compared to the M3 and drops off much more sharply. You will feel this. Other than that I do agree with T Bone above: When really on the boogie only the last 3k rpm or so matter. For daily driveability that is another concern, but here again with the very nice broad and flat torque curve in the M3 it is superior in this regard. |
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07-11-2008, 12:12 AM | #78 | |
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The total displacement is lower yet it makes more torque than the v8, ridiculously impressive. Better mileage and less emissions too but hey, porsche doesn't innovate right? What matters for performance cars is the power to weight ratio and power under the curve (the whole thing, not just the part that looks best to you). |
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07-11-2008, 12:14 AM | #79 | |
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07-11-2008, 12:16 AM | #80 | |
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BMW plays this game well as they rev the shit out of their motor to makeup for the lack of torque as well as use tremendous torque mulitiplication in the gearing. What direct injection provided is chiefly the bump in compression ratio. Porsche makes ridiculous torque per liter without direct injection in the GT3. I have yet to see another vehicle producing as much wheel hp per liter and as much wheel torque per liter. The 997 GT3 dyno's in the 370 wheel range, mind boggling. Kind of makes you wonder how they will outdo themselves again. Either way, the facelifted 997S is going to be kicking ass and taking names. |
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07-11-2008, 01:16 AM | #81 | |
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Uhhh no. DI does not provide a higher compression ratio, that is purely a function of the piston size/shape and cylinder size/shape. DI will in general provide more specific torque output. |
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07-11-2008, 04:24 AM | #82 | |
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The M3 went from 11.5:1 to 12:0:1. The carrera S was already at 11.8:1 before DI and now goes to 12.5:1 along with the standard carrera. I am looking at the same graph as you, the torque falls off, the power no longer rises but does not drop along with the torque due to the increase in revs. In order to make more power, as the X51 will, they will add torque up top I am sure with head work (as they did previously) and a higher redline. You act like this motor suddenly dies, as if you have driven it. |
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07-11-2008, 04:50 AM | #83 |
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I agree with sticky, BMW have good engineers but Porsche have great engineers. With the exception of their dogged persistence of keeping their rear engined 911 and finally getting the thing to handle after 40 years I would class their ability above all others.
P.S. We have enough torque vs horsepower, 335i vs M3 and How much power has the GTR debates to last us a lifetime. |
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07-11-2008, 05:07 AM | #84 | |
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What Porsche has done with this car bodes very well for the 911 and where they are taking the GT3 and Turbo platforms next. Seems like they will keep the 911 going forever, but their mid-engine platform can't be held back forever. |
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07-11-2008, 05:24 AM | #85 | ||
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I have been saying as much since the original Boxster first graced our streets, much as I appreciate the 911 I feel it time for Porsche to take the final step and give the Boxster and Cayman the power their chassis deserves and can cope with. |
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07-11-2008, 07:30 AM | #86 | |
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The GTR may still beat it at the track, but the 997tt will own the GTR in any straight line acceleration, imo. |
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07-11-2008, 08:00 AM | #87 | |
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The 997S with DI already quoted 9.3s from 0-100mph with launch control, which is fast enough for me. |
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07-11-2008, 08:38 AM | #88 | |
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There is speculation that Porsche may abandon the 3.6l for the 3.8l. However, one thing that is certain is that PAG will cease production of the current GT1 block, which has been race proven for years. Although, many diehards are upset by this, I welcome the updated engine. Time will tell if it is as over-engineered as the current GT1, but even if it's not, it will certainly be stout enough to handle more that the engine's power output. How much power the new block will handle remains to be seen. I have heard that the current GT1 block can safely handle over 700 hp. If one did not intend to heavily mod the new tt, the next generation block should be a better choice. These launch control dual clutch transmission runs are meaningless to me. I will opt for the standard standard; pun intended. In-gear runs are so much more important to me. The new tt should be heaven to drive. |
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