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04-24-2022, 02:20 PM | #67 | |||
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It has all the variables you want with the exception of Oil Pressure. I have not seen yet a better CAN variables out of the box better than the E92 M3 using PT6 CAN. One can say that it you want to learn how to drive fast, all you need is Solo2DL, E92 M3 and cheap tires. Just using the accelerometers tells you what the car is doing. But not what the driver is doing. For example, it would be hard to see the difference between 100% and 85% throttle. Or 1000psi vs 800psi brake forces Ideally, I want to see both, the driver input and the car output. Back to tires, if you want to see the differences between same tires 9am session and 4pm session I don't think the accelerometers are detailed enough. |
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04-24-2022, 07:28 PM | #68 |
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I've never been impressed with Hoosiers. They wear out so quick, and they're not as fast as a true Pirelli DH slick.
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04-24-2022, 08:21 PM | #70 |
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Scrubs (at least most of the time) or new?
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04-24-2022, 09:13 PM | #71 |
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Only advantage of the Hoosiers I can see is they are DOT legal. So depending on your class you can run them with less penalty. Or for some classes that require DOT tires, it's your fastest option.
Beyond that, the DH seems to make more sense. Price point is similar (much less when you're talking scrubs), as fast and seem to wear better? On the topic of tires reviews.. I like Jonathan from Tyre Reviews, but I will admit I do think some of his results are biased. Likely could be that many times they take place at a particular manufacturers facility. I don't think he's skewing results, but I strongly suspect that brand has a strong 'home field advantage'.. The raw data is one thing, but it's subjective feedback is great I find. It's not just all about what tire is the fastest - how it is to drive is just as important in my opinion. |
04-25-2022, 05:25 PM | #72 |
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As long as we all agree that R888R's are absolute garbage, I'm good with that. Can't speak on whether there is brand bias on Johnathan's reviews, but they are quite in depth and helpful when trying to make tire decisions (imo). Furthermore with my limited experience in track day tires (I've only tried 4 in the 200 or lower tw category) I'd say that my personal opinion of the ones I have tried, echo his.
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04-25-2022, 09:05 PM | #74 |
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I've only ever ran them new (+mine used, never someone's castoffs). They wore out so quickly it was astonishing.
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04-26-2022, 09:49 AM | #75 | |
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Tire Performance Criteria 1: Steering response and delay 2: Transient Stability 3: Vehicle Balance (Understeer/Oversteer) 4: Longitudinal Grip 5: Lateral Grip 4: Grip Progressivity Evaluate Steering Response and delay by perceiving how soon (time domain) and how quickly (rate of acceleration) the vehicle changes direction below, near the limit of grip, and at large steer angles during steering maneuvers. Evaluate Transient Stability when trail-braking, or under rapid ‘lift throttle’ deceleration, when cornering at or near the grip limit. Is the car easily upset when trail-braking or with lift throttle? Evaluate Vehicle Balance by gauging the amount of rear tire sliding as an indicator of vehicle balance. More rear tire sliding means more oversteer, and by gauging the amount of steering wheel angle necessary to corner, at or near the limit of tire adhesion. More steering wheel angle in order to corner at or beyond the limit means more understeer balance. Evaluate Longitudinal Grip by perceiving the efficiency of hard acceleration at corner exits or efficiency of hard braking. Evaluate Lateral Grip by the speed of travel through a turn or perceiving the level of lateral acceleration (g-level). Evaluate Grip Progressivity by perceiving how quickly and/or how slowly the vehicle slides when tire adhesion is lost. A gentle, slow slide that scrubs off speed with a gentle regain of adhesion is regarded as good progressivity. Now those criteria listed are more than a few, but consider the test driver’s skill working for a car maker - with over twenty such tire evaluation criteria - being tested while blasting around the Nurburgring at huge rates of speed. In short, they have to leave some speed on the table in order to keep a part of their brain engaged in evaluation and not wreck during the test. So that “N” on the sidewalls of "P" car OEM fitments really does take a lot to earn..
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04-26-2022, 11:48 AM | #76 |
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Most of the tire reviews I watch evaluate the front tires. While the rear tires are mentioned, the rears are not a major factor.
I am sure that when a manufacture evaluate tires they give all 4 tires equal consideration. Objectives: To win a race, one tenth of a second count. To win HPDE, value has more weight. If I want to "win" a second day at NYST, meaning finishing up 7x20min, I cannot only think about two tenth of a seconds. My right front will be delaminated if I am on 100% throttle on the long left T-6. So I need to rotate the car in a specific place by driving more like a V and getting off the throttle and on again. It may not be the fastest way. With Hoosiers I can be on the throttle without understeering, but there goes $500/tire. This is what I mean goals. Typically my goal is to maximize my driving time and drive my best, and secondary do my best lap time. But a time attack driver goal would be to go fastest for one lap. If i drove 7x20 min i met my goal If Time Attack got a PB by one tenth, he met his/her goal. The choice of tires, and how to use them is directly be affected by the usage. |
04-26-2022, 12:41 PM | #77 | |
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04-29-2022, 02:03 PM | #78 |
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05-08-2022, 10:10 AM | #79 |
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So how long do the DH slicks last when new?
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05-08-2022, 11:06 AM | #80 | |
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He's just one tester with one approach. I would not be making decisions solely on what he posts, for the reasons you say. I do like his channel because it gives me a preview of tires that will be available in the US soon. Plus, his educational videos are useful (e.g., snow tires versus all seasons). I also don't use Tire Rack for my sole purchasing choices, though to their credit they have only one test facility with a fleet of identical cars. I try to look at a lot of reviews/tests and see what patterns emerge. For example, the Michelin PS4S is near the top of many test types, across range of methodologies, and a variety of cars. To me, that signifies it is probably a great tire. For a street tire, I am usually prioritizing wet performance and road noise...no one likes the sudden realization that a car is sketchy in bad weather, nor do they like the drone of tires on long trips. If it has good dry performance and is durable, it's just gravy.
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05-08-2022, 07:21 PM | #81 | |
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Always good to look at multiple angles and tests though to parse through and come up with your own conclusions. At the end of the day, testing yourself is the best thing, but it’s not really cost effective
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05-14-2022, 04:01 PM | #82 |
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So... I feel dumb asking, but I'm really just trying to determine what to do. Last track event was really cold (~40F). First session I started at 30psi and it got up to 39psi. I kept bleeding them down throughout the day to try and keep them at around 34psi. Evidently, I should have been targeting closer to 36psi with some slower warm up laps. Also, I have -2.7° camber.
My front right Michelin PSS has plenty of tread except on the outside shoulder. Does this need replaced? I'm thinking yes. According to Tire Rack (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=161) > Once the lateral grooves in the shoulder start to disappear, the end is near - it's time to replace your tires. Next track weekend is at Summit Point Shenandoah. I think I'm going to increase camber to -3.0° and toe-out to 0.2° (from -2.7° and 0.1°). And go with PS4S upfront (rear PSS are still in great condition). Lessons learned 1. Pressure is important for more than just for grip. 2. Rotate tires in middle of track weekend. |
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05-16-2022, 09:25 AM | #83 |
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Keep an eye on that one but it's probably worth replacing.
Definitely a good idea always to rotate tires, and why a lot of people run square setups, especially if you're consistently driving a track in the same direction. You're always going to wear the outside front tire out first if you don't rotate.
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05-17-2022, 10:18 AM | #84 | |
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Was running scrubs, but put the one that looked virtually brand new on the left front. Recalibrating to the grip DH offers was challenging, there was a lot left according to the data. |
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05-24-2022, 01:51 PM | #86 |
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Tire Rack should have a test review out on the new Nexen and Bridgestone Vs. the Falken and Yokohama in the next week or two. I'm interested and looking forward to reading the results.
It seems to me the Nexen will probably not be the fastest but slot in more towards the durability side and being just off the pace of the Falken but we'll see...
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05-26-2022, 11:10 AM | #87 | |
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I've run plenty of directional tires backwards on track without issue (in the DRY obviously).
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05-26-2022, 12:39 PM | #88 |
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I've done the same as well to prolong tire life. Worth paying for the remount to potentially extend tire life 25-30%.
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