Whos running Mobil 1 0w-40?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by hacellular

Did you test your oil with 10W60 and 0W40? If so did you see a difference?

Never done an oil test.

[W///]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Anyone running M1 0w-40 have tuned engines (not SC) like ECU with catless elc? I am about to make the switch over to M1 and have a tune. I am wondering whether I should go back to stock with M1. Any input will be helpful.

I'm running literally the same setup as you. ACM test pipes, BPM dev and have been running 0W40 for well over 1.5 years. Been to the track once, and countless mountain runs in 30C+ weather. And you've seen what my Blackstone reports look like.

Kind of surprised though, you were very adamant about 10W60

[W///]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I have been running 0-40 with tune and cat delete for almost 30k miles. No issues.
Tune is not going to knock rod bearings out. Clearance/ Pressure/ Flow does that.

I don't believe you. You must have been using 10W60 the entire 30k miles. Plus your car would have never made it up to the Blue Ridge Parkway with 0W40

I call shenanigans

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by W///

I don't believe you. You must have been using 10W60 the entire 30k miles. Plus your car would have never made it up to the Blue Ridge Parkway with 0W40

I call shenanigans

Actually I wasnt using any oil, I just had to make something up to make it sound good.

[Killerfish2012]

Interesting to note that the debate over the use of M1 0W40 for track days, started with username Dpharm (1st post on this thread=#4). He bought his late model M3, then posted an oil analysis on the BITOG forums using TWS 10W60 for 7K miles. His oil analysis looked just fine. Going by posting dates, he next started posting on this thread and seemed to get influenced by the movement to M1 0W40. He changed to this oil, and later on began trying to advocate it's use for track days, even though his car was street driven and never tracked. Next he went on the track section, and he, and another guy tried to chime in on a thread where a noob asked which oil they should use for track days, they were both overwhelmed as that section of the forum is full of hardcore track guys, who wouldn't touch anything other than TWS 10W60 for track days. He then came back and continued posting on this thread, then slowly dropped stopped posting on this forum. Just some food for thought.

[kaede]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Anyone running M1 0w-40 have tuned engines (not SC) like ECU with catless elc? I am about to make the switch over to M1 and have a tune. I am wondering whether I should go back to stock with M1. Any input will be helpful.

In Australia where you see consistent high ambient temperature for sure it's gonna effect oil temps too no? As of now, running 10w60, what are your oil temps like? How do you drive? Do you track/HPDE your M3? If so i will be actually more inclined to stay with the TWS 10w60 if it is readily available. Also, since your OCI is 12 months (according to your signature), it shouldn't be too costly even if it costs more over there. If the TWS 10w60 is not available or is skyrocketting in prices, maybe consider the M1 5w50 that some mentioned?

Just my thinking xD not a pro at all in terms of oil. Let us know how it goes!

[Z K]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

But does the 0w40 still adequately protect the engine at those temperatures?

At the track the oil temperatures run up to 270 degrees all the time with 0w40 or 10w60. My oil analysis still looks great after running it for 4000 miles including a track day on a hot day (over 100F) , autocross runs and daily driving. You can find my oil analysis on the oil analysis thread.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=356


Here is one of my laps running on the super hot track day. I was on the 5 mile Thunderhill course - the largest track in the USA.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Z K

At the track the oil temperatures run up to 270 degrees all the time with 0w40 or 10w60. My oil analysis still looks great after running it for 4000 miles including a track day on a hot day (over 100F) , autocross runs and daily driving. You can find my oil analysis on the oil analysis thread.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=356

You should note that you never ran straight 0W40, but instead mixed in 10W60, which is why your viscosity stayed in grade for 0W40.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

You should note that you never ran straight 0W40, but instead mixed in 10W60, which is why your viscosity stayed in grade for 0W40.

Well, we'll see what my oil analysis looks this time. I am running straight 0w40 on the track now.

Last time, I just stuck in a few quarts of Redline 10w60 because I had some extra quarts I was using up.

[kaede]

Originally Posted by Z K

Well, we'll see what my oil analysis looks this time. I am running straight 0w40 on the track now.

Last time, I just stuck in a few quarts of Redline 10w60 because I had some extra quarts I was using up.

No expert in the issue, but i was told not to mix TWS 10w60 with M1 0w40 because it is different base or something and it won't mix well. For you, the Redline 10w60 is Ester based and is different from the M1, by your results it seems like mixing is no big issue or is it still not recommended.

I had an idea or mixing 50/50 TWS with M1 0w40 for the summer here in Canada (where temperature never really gets above 86F - even if it does, only for a week or two max per year) but was told that it will not be good.

Anyone chime in? xD

[Z K]

Originally Posted by kaede

No expert in the issue, but i was told not to mix TWS 10w60 with M1 0w40 because it is different base or something and it won't mix well. For you, the Redline 10w60 is Ester based and is different from the M1, by your results it seems like mixing is no big issue or is it still not recommended.

I had an idea or mixing 50/50 TWS with M1 0w40 for the summer here in Canada (where temperature never really gets above 86F - even if it does, only for a week or two max per year) but was told that it will not be good.

Anyone chime in? xD

I don't think mixing will cause any big issues. The GT-R guys have been doing this for a while now. The additive packages are not optimal but I doubt it'll cause problems.

Here's the GT-R thread on 50/50 0w40 and TWS
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...tone-analysis/

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by W///

I'm running literally the same setup as you. ACM test pipes, BPM dev and have been running 0W40 for well over 1.5 years. Been to the track once, and countless mountain runs in 30C+ weather. And you've seen what my Blackstone reports look like.

Kind of surprised though, you were very adamant about 10W60

Thanks. I am not adamant. Given that I am approaching eight years of original ownership, it's the case of ensuring the longevity of that experience.

I just managed to purchase the same M1 0w-40 European car formula for a lot less than 10w-60 through a third party importer who by passes the official channel here. So I have taken the first step now. I will be doing the oil change next weekend when I get the oil.

At least two months of warm/hot weather left it will be interesting to see the oil temp.

Also it will be interesting to note the colour of the oil when changing. The 10w-60 comes out black probably because of the heat build up and the thicker flow characteristics. But with the thinner M1 I guess the oil will remain translucent. Have you notice the colour of the oil?

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by kaede

In Australia where you see consistent high ambient temperature for sure it's gonna effect oil temps too no? As of now, running 10w60, what are your oil temps like? How do you drive? Do you track/HPDE your M3? If so i will be actually more inclined to stay with the TWS 10w60 if it is readily available. Also, since your OCI is 12 months (according to your signature), it shouldn't be too costly even if it costs more over there. If the TWS 10w60 is not available or is skyrocketting in prices, maybe consider the M1 5w50 that some mentioned?

Just my thinking xD not a pro at all in terms of oil. Let us know how it goes!

TWS 10w-60 is only available through the dealer and they haven't still switched to Shell here in Australia. It's only expensive side and I've been able to purchase it at trade price.

I won't be taking to the tracks anymore and it's mainly the occasional spirited driving and might see top end rpm only on first or second gear, and hardly. Given mainly cruising I think the M1 is better suited.

Also I like to see the Lead reading with M1. Last BL analysis gave a reading of 4.

Also given how hot it gets in Perth, Western Australia in the summer, an oil with better flow characteristics will help move the heat from the bearing. If the bearings are discolouring, I hear that's due to excessive heat build up due to overheated oil and lack of flow.

It won't hurt to try it for at least 12 months. If shit happens so be it. I am happy to take the responsibility.

Thanks for the suggestion and it's a good one but I think M1 0w-40 should withstand anything this engine can throw at it.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Also it will be interesting to note the colour of the oil when changing. The 10w-60 comes out black probably because of the heat build up and the thicker flow characteristics. But with the thinner M1 I guess the oil will remain translucent. Have you notice the colour of the oil?

M1 will be black as well. Pretty sure all used oil comes out black.

[Harpua]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

M1 will be black as well. Pretty sure all used oil comes out black.

Just changed mine this week -- Used M1 is indeed black.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

You can still hit quite high oil temps though.
Alekshop logged oil temps up to 270F on track with a stock oil cooler.
At 270F the oils viscosity is ~ half of what it is at 210F (for both 10W60 and 0W40).
Also 10W60 has the same viscosity at 240F as the 0W40 does at 210F

Originally Posted by gatorfast

But does the 0w40 still adequately protect the engine at those temperatures?

Its a good question and impossible to answer with complete confidence however:
in an effort to answer your question I looked at what effect tracking an M3 has on reliability. So I read through the post history (major ball ache!) of a set of owners who had engine failures (m3post members living in the USA but not supercharged) to see how many noted that they had tracked their car. Its not a precise method but erring on the conservative side the number was 10 out of 38, lets call it 25% (includes cars that actually failed at the track). Most of these guys were probably running 10W60.
I don't know what the % of M3post owners who track their cars but I'm sure its nowhere near 25%, more like 5%?
So if we can reasonably believe that a 10W60 oil offers slightly better protection to an S65 engine in extreme track conditions than a 0W40 oil (do we?) and that tracking a car increases the chance of having an engine failure then it follows that a 0W40 oil is a more compromised oil for track days than a 10W60.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Interesting to note that the debate over the use of M1 0W40 for track days, started with username Dpharm (1st post on this thread=#4). He bought his late model M3, then posted an oil analysis on the BITOG forums using TWS 10W60 for 7K miles. His oil analysis looked just fine. Going by posting dates, he next started posting on this thread and seemed to get influenced by the movement to M1 0W40. He changed to this oil, and later on began trying to advocate it's use for track days, even though his car was street driven and never tracked. Next he went on the track section, and he, and another guy tried to chime in on a thread where a noob asked which oil they should use for track days, they were both overwhelmed as that section of the forum is full of hardcore track guys, who wouldn't touch anything other than TWS 10W60 for track days. He then came back and continued posting on this thread, then slowly dropped stopped posting on this forum. Just some food for thought.

Take it for what it is worth to some people but I have been running it since way before this thread was even started.....and I am still here 30k miles later

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

So if we can reasonably believe that a 10W60 oil offers slightly better protection to an S65 engine in extreme track conditions than a 0W40 oil (do we?) and that tracking a car increases the chance of having an engine failure then it follows that a 0W40 oil is a more compromised oil for track days than a 10W60.

The 10w60 does offer a thicker oil film than 0w40. However, the main theory of why our engines tend to wear out rod bearings, sometimes to the point of engine failure, is that the clearance is not sufficient to allow the 10w60 to do its job (even if the oil thins as a result of high temps). So while 10w60 offers more protection via a thicker oil film when simply comparing it to a 0w40, this protection is of no value if the oil cant fit into the space between the bearing and journal.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Its a good question and impossible to answer with complete confidence however:
in an effort to answer your question I looked at what effect tracking an M3 has on reliability. So I read through the post history (major ball ache!) of a set of owners who had engine failures (m3post members living in the USA but not supercharged) to see how many noted that they had tracked their car.

I don't quite like this approach to data gathering. Instead an extensive look at the track section shows, not one failure amongst those guys. So that's a 0% failure rate, for folks who we know track their car from video taped evidence, and lap times. The reason for this is their religious oil change schedule of not more than 3 track days.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

The 10w60 does offer a thicker oil film than 0w40. However, the main theory of why our engines tend to wear out rod bearings, sometimes to the point of engine failure, is that the clearance is not sufficient to allow the 10w60 to do its job (even if the oil thins as a result of high temps). So while 10w60 offers more protection via a thicker oil film when simply comparing it to a 0w40, this protection is of no value if the oil cant fit into the space between the bearing and journal.

Oil weight and oil protection against high engine temps are not always related. Take Mobil for example. If you turn your bottle of 0W40 around and read the information, you will see that for the category of protection against high engine oil temps, 0W40 protects less than M1 advanced 5W30, which had a full 3 check marks. M1 5W30 also offers this superior protection for a guaranteed 15K miles, and received a check mark in this category, while M1 0W40 does not. Simply put 5W30 is formulated differently, and has a much higher rating from the engineers that made it, than M1 0W40, thus the gold bottle color vs the silver bottle color.

You do have a point when it comes to 0W40 vs 10W60. For those who will never track the car, it's worth it to think twice about using a 60 oil vs a 40 oil, when both numbers are based on the oil thickness at 212F. The S65 likes to sit at around 210F, so the thinner oil might be better for the bearings on street driven cars.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Oil weight and oil protection against high engine temps are not always related. Take Mobil for example. If you turn your bottle of 0W40 around and read the information, you will see that for the category of protection against high engine oil temps, 0W40 protects less than M1 advanced 5W30, which had a full 3 check marks. M1 5W30 also offers this superior protection for a guaranteed 15K miles, and received a check mark in this category, while M1 0W40 does not. Simply put 5W30 is formulated differently, and has a much higher rating from the engineers that made it, than M1 0W40, thus the gold bottle color vs the silver bottle color.

You have brought this up up before and I think you are relying way too much on these marketing materials. I dont know what M1 "advanced 5w30" is but as far as I know, M1 0w40 has a higher viscosity and HTHS than any of its 5w30 products.

So if we are strictly talking about the oil itself, I dont understand your argument that an oil with lower viscosity and HTHS ratings offers better protection than an oil with higher viscosity/HTHS because it has more check marks on the bottle which has a gold label on it instead of silver.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

You have brought this up up before and I think you are relying way too much on these marketing materials. I dont know what M1 "advanced 5w30" is but as far as I know, M1 0w40 has a higher viscosity and HTHS than any of its 5w30 products.

So if we are strictly talking about the oil itself, I dont understand your argument that an oil with lower viscosity and HTHS ratings offers better protection than an oil with higher viscosity/HTHS because it has more check marks on the bottle which has a gold label on it instead of silver.

The 0-40 and 15-50 are the best oils they have in the USA as far as protection from add pack. The ESP is designed for low ash diesel but also works in gasoline engines with long drain intervals. It might be better 12k miles later than the 0-40 but that is the only thing it will be better at.