Rod Bearing Shop Input Needed

[DRLane]

Jumping in, cannon ball!!!

Why does a business need to answer your questions on their costs and margins? BE provides a product that's in demand and their price point doesn't seem to be an issue. There are a lot of options for bearings, buy those that align with your objectives and priorities.

If your response is simply, it's my right, justify your existence and business model. Than the thread is nonsensical and Dr Seuss might be the solution.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Another non-answer, avoidance of discussion of why your bearings cost 4 times that of the competition when you have sold so many thousands of sets that you recovered all your costs long ago, and more personal attacks on me through your language about ASSumptions. It is so obvious that I have struck a nerve by bringing to light your huge profits.

Sure, try to distract people with your fact that your cost is more than ACL’s $150 street price. Maybe ACL’s cost is $100 and yours is $200. ACL makes $50 profit and you make $400 profit.

Remember when you tried to suggest in this thread that your profit was only $30? You avoided responding to that when I quoted your words.

https://bebearings.com/Overview.html

Farm fresh free range Green Eggs with freshly baked artisan bread

See:

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/mob...nly-p2932.aspx

In case you missed it, https://store.vacmotorsports.com/mob...nly-p2932.aspx

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Jumping in, cannon ball!!!

Why does a business need to answer your questions on their costs and margins? BE provides a product that's in demand and their price point doesn't seem to be an issue. There are a lot of options for bearings, buy those that align with your objectives and priorities.

If your response is simply, it's my right, justify your existence and business model. Than the thread is nonsensical and Dr Seuss might be the solution.

Thank you

[Properstyle]

https://store.langracing.com/acl-rod...mw-e9x-m3-s65/

Mixed set of extra clearance rod bearings. they work they last. Is my go to when a customer ask me about doing the install.

at the end of the day spend your money where you are comfortable. Rod bearings are no rocket science and neither is the install. Next to no one will actually warranty the failure.

BE has the better deal on rod bolts , lang has the better deal on rod bearings.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

https://bebearings.com/Overview.html


See:

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/mob...nly-p2932.aspx

In case you missed it, https://store.vacmotorsports.com/mob...nly-p2932.aspx

Vac also sell the Supertech valve spring set for 999. when the springs direct from vender are 330 lol. just saying I would never use them as my support for price point.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Remember when you tried to suggest in this thread that your profit was only $30? You avoided responding to that when I quoted your words.

Let's start here. Then let's move on to disproving all of your other false statements. Once I disprove this one, then I'll move on to your other questions. Failure to answer on your part, and we don't move on.

Show everybody where I ever said this. Yes you quoted my words, but you clearly didn't understand them. Please show everybody where I said, or even suggested that profit was only $30 per set; and explain how you came to that conclusion.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Jumping in, cannon ball!!!

Why does a business need to answer your questions on their costs and margins? BE provides a product that's in demand and their price point doesn't seem to be an issue. There are a lot of options for bearings, buy those that align with your objectives and priorities.

If your response is simply, it's my right, justify your existence and business model. Than the thread is nonsensical and Dr Seuss might be the solution.

No, it's worse than this. In spite of telling him 2, 3, maybe 4 times that I'm not BE and that BE isn't on this forum, he keeps circling back and demanding answers anyways. Is this intentional? Probably. He thinks he's hit a nerve...he hasn't.

[bikenerd]

I'm gonna throw a diaper on the pissing contest here and take us all back to the original point of the thread: shop input.

Does anyone know a good shop in NorCal (preferably Sacramento area) to get RBs done? I'd prefer BE bearings, but is there any documented proof of improved performance or lifespan over the other aftermarket brands, or are the advantages mostly theoretical?

[Tommysalami]

SSR Performance in Orange quoted my friend 1637 for the job with ACL bearings and ARP bolts, not including price of oil and motor mounts. This was last year

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by bikenerd

I'm gonna throw a diaper on the pissing contest here and take us all back to the original point of the thread: shop input.

Does anyone know a good shop in NorCal (preferably Sacramento area) to get RBs done? I'd prefer BE bearings, but is there any documented proof of improved performance or lifespan over the other aftermarket brands, or are the advantages mostly theoretical?

Valley motorwerks in Rancho Cordova might be worth a shout.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by bikenerd

I'm gonna throw a diaper on the pissing contest here and take us all back to the original point of the thread: shop input.

Does anyone know a good shop in NorCal (preferably Sacramento area) to get RBs done? I'd prefer BE bearings, but is there any documented proof of improved performance or lifespan over the other aftermarket brands, or are the advantages mostly theoretical?

Haha, you put a diaper on and then literally stoke the flames.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by bikenerd

I'm gonna throw a diaper on the pissing contest here and take us all back to the original point of the thread: shop input.

Does anyone know a good shop in NorCal (preferably Sacramento area) to get RBs done? I'd prefer BE bearings, but is there any documented proof of improved performance or lifespan over the other aftermarket brands, or are the advantages mostly theoretical?

Performance Motorwerks in Rocklin are BMW savvy.
They are doing 10% off on labor rates thru March.

[bikenerd]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Haha, you put a diaper on and then literally stoke the flames.

I wasn't trying to stoke, it's a legit question. IS there a definitive answer?

And SAMM3Y , I believe Valley only uses OEM bearings.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by bikenerd

I wasn't trying to stoke, it's a legit question. IS there a definitive answer?

The two brands on the market the longest since 2015 are BE and VAC. The others came at least 1 or 2 years later.

BE is a true extra clearance bearing with nominal target of 0.0024 inch clearance.

VAC was designed for OEM clearance, but are marketed as extra clearance. This is because the bearing is designated by Clevite as an "HX" bearing -- which means "Extra Clearance." Once the bearing leaves Clevite, it is then coated with a PTFE coating which reduces the clearance back to OEM specifications, or near OEM specifications.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...postcount=3194

ACL has two different sizes. STD size targets OEM, and extra size. The STD size is too small (OEM clearance) and the extra size is too big. Some people mix half-sets of each to mimic BE Bearing clearances. Ironically, the idea of blending mixed sets of ACL came from Bert, co-owner of BE Bearings.

King is not supposed to be an OEM replacement as it requires you to hone the rod for proper fitment. This requirement was stated for their original design, and I'm not sure if that's changed since then.

Here's specs for all the bearings on the market, including OEM:
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index....5_Rod_Bearings

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by bikenerd

I'm gonna throw a diaper on the pissing contest here and take us all back to the original point of the thread: shop input.

Does anyone know a good shop in NorCal (preferably Sacramento area) to get RBs done?

VT Motorworks

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Haha, you put a diaper on and then literally stoke the flames.

Yes, he fans the flames but provides no answers about why BE bearings cost 4 times the competition, why the huge profit margin is justified. Someone else just posted that VAC was the first to have Clevite make an aftermarket bearing and that BE bought a set and copied them. No surprise he put a diaper on — it’s all coming out.

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, he fans the flames but provides no answers about why BE bearings cost 4 times the competition, why the huge profit margin is justified. Someone else just posted that VAC was the first to have Clevite make an aftermarket bearing and that BE bought a set and copied them. No surprise he put a diaper on — it’s all coming out.

Because capitalism.

[bikenerd]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, he fans the flames but provides no answers about why BE bearings cost 4 times the competition, why the huge profit margin is justified. Someone else just posted that VAC was the first to have Clevite make an aftermarket bearing and that BE bought a set and copied them. No surprise he put a diaper on — it’s all coming out.

We know that several of the aftermarket bearings are made by Clevite, and therefore it's logical that their costs are similar. But if we do some homework, and research the appropriate clearances for rod bearings in high performance engines, then review the clearances in the document he linked, we find that BE is the only one to have gotten their dimensions correct. Would I pay more for that? I very well might. And why couldn't anyone else get it right?

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, he fans the flames but provides no answers about why BE bearings cost 4 times the competition, why the huge profit margin is justified. Someone else just posted that VAC was the first to have Clevite make an aftermarket bearing and that BE bought a set and copied them. No surprise he put a diaper on — it’s all coming out.

Why didn't you answer my question above -- and explain how you drew those conclusions? I didn't think you'd answer, so let's move on to the next subject...and another future unanswered question:

BE posted the bearing specs on September 23, 2013. You participated in that thread starting on Oct-31, 2013. Bert contacted Clevite about custom bearings on Nov-19, 2013. VAC introduced bearings in 2015. All of this is public knowledge and easily verified from the bearing wiki thread. Due to your own participation in 2013, you can't deny knowledge of the timeline and the order of events, but you can say your simply forgot. Are you now intentionally trying to deceive people by saying "BE bought a set and copied them...it's all coming out?" Or, did you forget about this timeline and order of events from your participation in that thread in 2013? After looking it over again and refreshing your memory, do you now agree that those statements are false?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by RedScytheM3

Because capitalism.

This is the best answer yet. Simple and explains everything while giving BE’s appointed or self-appointed forum representative a way to avoid justifying why his bearings cost 4 times that of the competition or talking about the huge profit margins.

[ha9981]

This is the kind of shit that makes me not want to touch BE bearings. I'm looking forward to someone coming and eating BE's dinner by educating the market.

For someone who charges $600 for bearings and is in bed with BE. If I were you I would walk out of this with the little, if any dignity left.

BMW sells Clevite bearings, spec is OE and the cost of production is the same more or less. They have more scale so BMW cost will be less. BMW charges ridiculous premiums, but BE sells their bearings for even more.

If you ever open your mouth about ACL margins, please realize it's not your mouth but your rear hole.

As stated earlier, there is literally nothing special about BE bearings except marketing. You don't have a race engine and getting near perfect tolerance for 3x cost is stupid when you have no journal measurements. If you think this level of perfection is required, then kindly do it right and pull out your engine and get journal measurements first. Don't cheap out, pay 4x on the labour too, do it engine out.

BE = 300 bearings + 300 marketing surcharge

Initially I bought into the BE marketing until I learned more about engine building. Only to learn BE compared race engines that have engine life in hours to our engines that have engine life in years. About how NASCAR engine builder was consulted and how BE is used in race engines. Relax, you literally gave Clevite a spec and they manufactured the bearings.

[SYT_Shadow]

I don't understand the relevance of what the profit margin of a vendor is. Do we crap on JRZ/MCS because they are more expensive than KW CS?

I'm grateful a company documented the rod bearing situation in depth like BE did. Almost a decade later they remain the only company to provide in depth information of what they sell and why they do what they do. I wish more companies were as interested in our platform as BE is, and provided incredibly in depth information vs crickets from other competitors. You can agree with them or not, but I hope we all agree that it's fantastic someone wants to provide this kind of insights.

The special thing about BE, besides documentation, is they measure all bearings and you get a matched set. Anyone who is familiar with quality control or engineering understands there is a gap between statistical quality control vs every controlling every single piece. Is this worth another $400? For some yes, for some not.

There is no argument about whether it's better to rebuild an engine with the right clearances and measuring everything vs just the bearings. Everyone agrees on that. BE seems to be a pretty reasonable bandaid solution that prevents the most common failure mode. Is my stroker with main/rod/side clearances corrected a better option? Yes, and at 36k without any supporting components it is not cheap.

In the Porsche world, LN engineering (IIRC) figured out the IMS bearing issue and has sold kits since then. I hope in Rennlist people aren't questioning why they charge what they charge whereas there are other kits put together that are cheaper.