proper diagnostic process for RB?

[tweny]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Shitty deal.

Mains do not knock. If I were you I would take this to a proper engine builder and see what the problem is. Fix it properly if it can be fixed.

he is a proper engine builder. he's done RB's on the S65 more than 20 times. I'm taking the engine the apart. if it's just main bearing I'll change that, if it's not, then I would have made sure that the engine isn't salvageable in any way and that I need a completely new one.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by revengeismine

My month old to me M3 had a flawless oil analysis and the engine sounded totally healthy and the rod bearings were nearing catastrophic failure. In the top 3 worst the shop had seen.

So it is really a roll of the dice.

How many miles?

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by dardapimp

Aren't the 2011's aluminum bearings? Why does it look like they they have copper in them? Or is that just from the heat

Yes, >2010.5 should have tin aluminum bearings that are harder but also more eccentricity (more oval shaped to allow oil circulation). Should not see any copper color.

[speedbunny]

are you sure the crank has no damage? even a tiny scratch could blow the rods all over again?

[tweny]

Originally Posted by speedbunny

are you sure the crank has no damage? even a tiny scratch could blow the rods all over again?

took the engine off the car and stripped everything on the outside today. taking it apart on monday hopefully to check crank and main bearings.

[E90Has]

Sorry about this I'm new to the forum and don't know how to create a new thread just yet.. I'm hopefully buying a 2010 60 E90 m3. Mileage is at 77000. The dealer is unable to tell me if the RB has been done and I can't find any evidence to show they have been done... At this mileage is it most likely that they've been done in the past? Is there anything else I need to look out for?

[tweny]

Originally Posted by E90Has

Sorry about this I'm new to the forum and don't know how to create a new thread just yet.. I'm hopefully buying a 2010 60 E90 m3. Mileage is at 77000. The dealer is unable to tell me if the RB has been done and I can't find any evidence to show they have been done... At this mileage is it most likely that they've been done in the past? Is there anything else I need to look out for?

I've learned my lesson, even if I were to buy a 15k miles m3, I'd do bearings first thing. make it your priority and whatever you do, do not sleep on it.

[E90Has]

Originally Posted by tweny

I've learned my lesson, even if I were to buy a 15k miles m3, I'd do bearings first thing. make it your priority and whatever you do, do not sleep on it.

I'm just hoping my warantee covers it! What was your mileage?

[pbonsalb]

The mileage does not really matter. Engines have failed at 6k. EAS just did bearings on a 31k mile motor and they were badly scored. And other cars seem to be doing fine at 100k or more on original bearings. Based on the pictures of bearings that come out, I’d say 90% look excessively worn for the mileage.

I changed mine in 2014 when my extended warranty ran out. A warranty is a reasonable hedge against the risk. Would be a lot more down time and inconvenience than doing a preventative maintenance change in one day, but other than the off the road time difference, your exposure should be limited to your deductible.

[E90Has]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The mileage does not really matter. Engines have failed at 6k. EAS just did bearings on a 31k mile motor and they were badly scored. And other cars seem to be doing fine at 100k or more on original bearings. Based on the pictures of bearings that come out, I’d say 90% look excessively worn for the mileage.

I changed mine in 2014 when my extended warranty ran out. A warranty is a reasonable hedge against the risk. Would be a lot more down time and inconvenience than doing a preventative maintenance change in one day, but other than the off the road time difference, your exposure should be limited to your deductible.

Good point. What would you recommend I do? Keep it running and wait till it can be done under warranty? Or get it done soon as I have the spare funds?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Bemo

Seriously, dude should get nominated for and win an RB Grammy!

Thank you !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by tweny

update: installed rod bearings today, put everything back together, turned the car on and the knock is still there. I took out the filter, cut it, and there was metal shavings in it. took out the oil pan, oil had metal in it. I'm thinking main bearings? I'm rather desperate at this point. drove the car for a total of 2000 KMs since buying it. looks like I'm gonna have to take the engine apart.

Second time knock = S65 RIP
I'm so sorry to hear this ...

Please keep us posted regarding your situation .

[mapster37]

Originally Posted by E90Has

Good point. What would you recommend I do? Keep it running and wait till it can be done under warranty? Or get it done soon as I have the spare funds?

it would be tough to get an extended warranty to replace the rod bearings without a failure. Getting them done is more preventative maintenance, which is normally not covered under ext wty contracts....

[pbonsalb]

Exactly. The warranty would come into play only if there is an engine failure. Since that could be a $20k claim, it will investigate. Your car could be out of action for a month or two. It’s one way to hedge the risk, though. Could be your car, like most of these M3, keeps on driving fine through the warranty period, after which you would change them preventatively or sell the car or roll the dice and keep driving (they call that self-insurance).

[E90Has]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Exactly. The warranty would come into play only if there is an engine failure. Since that could be a $20k claim, it will investigate. Your car could be out of action for a month or two. It’s one way to hedge the risk, though. Could be your car, like most of these M3, keeps on driving fine through the warranty period, after which you would change them preventatively or sell the car or roll the dice and keep driving (they call that self-insurance).

Planning on getting them done in the next 1500 miles. Found a very well reviewed local company who charge £1400. Will be gutted if they take them out and say they were okay at the present time lol.

[pbonsalb]

That is the dilemma, but if you review the many pictures of removed bearings, you will see that 90% look bad. Based on that sampling, my guess is that 90% of the bearings in the 90% of cars that are still on stock bearings also show excessive wear. To play the devil’s advocate, one would then ask why the 90% of cars still on original bearings aren’t blowing engines all the time. The blown engine reports are fairly steady and have not been dramatically increasing. The unofficial tally might be a few hundred — just guessing, but 1% of production might be fair.

Again, your roll of the dice. A risk assessor would say the odds are against your engine failing. If it fails, it could cost $20k to replace. The insurance premium for preventatively changing bearings is $2000. Probably around 10% of owners have chosen to pay it.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by tweny

I've learned my lesson, even if I were to buy a 15k miles m3, I'd do bearings first thing. make it your priority and whatever you do, do not sleep on it.

I also learned this lesson with my E46 M3. Once it knocks...that rod is no good meaning bottom end rebuild. I wish I saw this earlier because I'd tell you not to waste your time.

I recommend swapping in a used motor. Easier, cheaper, faster, and less of a chance of installer error.

If you decide to rebuild and turn the crank, you must harden the surface by heat treating it (plasma nitiriding is the term I believe). The crank won't last very long if you don't. Once you grind the surface off, you expose a surface that is not heat treated. I had my S54 crank turned, used undersized bearings and it lasted 12k miles (mostly track).

That's why I recommend going with a used motor. Heat treatment nitriding is going to run $800-$1000 by itself (plus grinding, polishing, straightening and balancing the crank).

Where in TX are you located?

[StripclubDJ]

In for the carmax offer

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The mileage does not really matter. Engines have failed at 6k. EAS just did bearings on a 31k mile motor and they were badly scored. And other cars seem to be doing fine at 100k or more on original bearings. Based on the pictures of bearings that come out, I’d say 90% look excessively worn for the mileage.

I changed mine in 2014 when my extended warranty ran out. A warranty is a reasonable hedge against the risk. Would be a lot more down time and inconvenience than doing a preventative maintenance change in one day, but other than the off the road time difference, your exposure should be limited to your deductible.

FWIW, spoke to the service manager at my BMW dealer and he got with the lead tech and the tech said they've only seen issues with M's older than 2010.5.

[cjm41]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

FWIW, spoke to the service manager at my BMW dealer and he got with the lead tech and the tech said they've only seen issues with M's older than 2010.5.

FWIW, they are morons. I've never actually seen the 2 girls one cup video, but I'm pretty sure it exists.

There is no shortage of documented RB failures spanning 08-13.

Next time you go to that dealership, print and bring copies of the attached to the "techs" you spoke with:

https://www.job-applications.com/mcd...plication-pdf/

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by tweny

I've learned my lesson, even if I were to buy a 15k miles m3, I'd do bearings first thing. make it your priority and whatever you do, do not sleep on it.

Do you know what failed again?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

FWIW, spoke to the service manager at my BMW dealer and he got with the lead tech and the tech said they've only seen issues with M's older than 2010.5.

They are wrong. The same problem is well documented to occur on M3s with the newer lead free bearings that came out around 2010.5. If you want to learn, you can read the bearing wiki and the threads on rod bearing failures.

If you don’t want to learn, just listen to your dealer and roll the dice— the odds are actually with you. However, if I had a 2011-2013 production car that was out of warranty, I would be changing the bearings preventatively.