Got my ARH Headers X-pipe installed!

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Just asking here but why would you have to change headers to pass the smog, is it because the visual says if it has been changed then you automatically fail? Just wondering because the headers are no different than the stock ones in that sense.
Sometimes I think it would be very cool to live in CA, other times not so much.

Exactly, the fact the visual shows they are changed is an automatic failure here in Cali, unless the cats being changed are a CARB approved replacement,which doesn't exist. However, even with a CARB approved cat you are still in violation because its against the law to remove a functional cat in the first place. Of course people are doing it with the test pipes, but its so much easier to correct this during smog than having to remove the aftermarket headers and xpipe. Now you may get someone at the smog check station who didn't catch it, but someone who knows what to look for will catch it and you will fail the visual. Even though you pass the sniffer and the OBDII test.

Dave

[SVH]

But you can use OEM cats with Schmeidmann. There not long tube...

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by SVH

But you can use OEM cats with Schmeidmann. There not long tube...

Then whats the point. The headers you mention didnt show anymore gains or very little over the OEM manifolds normally aspirated. If you are going to supercharge the car then you don't give a damm about emissions as there is now way in hell that will pass a visual. I fail to see the reason for your post other than post count.

[Nick ARH]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

Nik my M3 has EsS vT-625 And test pipes as well,how many WHP can be improve?


R

Wayne, There are factors to consider. I'd like to know how much boost you currently produce and what elevation you're at. It's safe to say you'll be up in the Mid 20's RW. I'm available to chat about it if you care to call me or email me a contact number and I'll reach you. My email is nick@americanracingheaders.com. I appreciate you inquiring.

Nick
631-608-1986

[Weyne Masters]

Elevation 10 ft,psi 6,5

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Exactly, the fact the visual shows they are changed is an automatic failure here in Cali, unless the cats being changed are a CARB approved replacement,which doesn't exist. However, even with a CARB approved cat you are still in violation because its against the law to remove a functional cat in the first place. Of course people are doing it with the test pipes, but its so much easier to correct this during smog than having to remove the aftermarket headers and xpipe. Now you may get someone at the smog check station who didn't catch it, but someone who knows what to look for will catch it and you will fail the visual. Even though you pass the sniffer and the OBDII test.

Dave

How detailed are the visual inspections? Popping the hood sure, but looking under the car would take a lift. It's been a long time since I had to smog a car; do they actually put the car on a lift?

[dj_dub]

Y'all just need to find a shady Vietnamese friend who's a SMOG tech and he'll pass you no problem...that's what I did, no worries here! Haha

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Hujan

How detailed are the visual inspections? Popping the hood sure, but looking under the car would take a lift. It's been a long time since I had to smog a car; do they actually put the car on a lift?

It will vary per location but they honestly just looked under my hood. I imagine if you had a loud exhaust that smelled a lot, they maybe would look under it with a flashlight but they relied mostly on what was under the hood and what the OBD read.

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

It will vary per location but they honestly just looked under my hood. I imagine if you had a loud exhaust that smelled a lot, they maybe would look under it with a flashlight but they relied mostly on what was under the hood and what the OBD read.

+1. I've watched them smog test my cars (in CA) about 10 times and never once did they look under the car. Maybe if they have a reason to suspect the car is modified...

So far I've seen just a cursory look over the engine compartment-- and without any reference photos or anything, how much are they really going to see on an unfamiliar car?

[SVH]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Then whats the point. The headers you mention didnt show anymore gains or very little over the OEM manifolds normally aspirated. If you are going to supercharge the car then you don't give a damm about emissions as there is now way in hell that will pass a visual. I fail to see the reason for your post other than post count.

Oh please, I've been a member for a few years now. If I cared about post counts I'd have a lot more.
What's the point? The discussion, in which you participated, was partly about having to swap out the headers to pass a emissions test every two years. I simply pointed out that some headers you don't have too. If you want to talk about just Cal then there is no point to you to discuss headers. It's would be a moot point. On the other hand even there are the other 49 states were we can have super chargers. To them it may be relevant.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by SVH

Oh please, I've been a member for a few years now. If I cared about post counts I'd have a lot more.
What's the point? The discussion, in which you participated, was partly about having to swap out the headers to pass a emissions test every two years. I simply pointed out that some headers you don't have too. If you want to talk about just Cal then there is no point to you to discuss headers. It's would be a moot point. On the other hand even there are the other 49 states were we can have super chargers. To them it may be relevant.

Didn't mean to get combative with you, so please forgive. The post was about ARH headers..you bringing in another brand header into the equation not to mention the fact how was I incorrect about the visual inspection? Also, you even mention in another post that the headers were worth very little on a NA car. Thats what I meant by whats the point.

[SVH]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Didn't mean to get combative with you, so please forgive. The post was about ARH headers..you bringing in another brand header into the equation not to mention the fact how was I incorrect about the visual inspection? Also, you even mention in another post that the headers were worth very little on a NA car. Thats what I meant by whats the point.

Far enough Dave. Please forgive here too...
I don't mean to hijack the thread. It's just that I don't want everyone to get the impression that there are no alternatives besides swaping them headers out. Long tube headers make no sense because of the cost involved in doing so. Also, the questionable fact of any real benefit with long tube headers on NA s65's. We know they work with SC s65's. Others brought up Bimmerworld's headers. And I brought up Schmeidmann. In a general disscussion about the pros and cons of headers I thought it relevent. If the thread is only about ARH headers and it's questionable power gains then I apoligize.

[ilikebmxbikes]

we are all getting side track and need to recognize there are multiple discussions going on here. Each has its points but they are separate.

1- Are there gains from ARH? - i believe so. While we haven't seen data provided like bimmerworlds, I expect the headers to have a similar gain NA and a more significant gain FI. The sound, to many, has been an upgrade as well.

2- Are the gains worth the price of the part/install/and potential emissions issues? - Worth will vary per person. Changing headers on any platform comes with emissions risks and no one should do the mod without expecting to either swap out or go through a backdoor smog check.
3- How do the headers compare to competition? schmedmann / bimmerworld / motorsport24?

[Maypo]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

I think it's clear now if your not supercharged, headers only make sense if you just love the sound over a regular catless xpipe. Otherwise you are looking at 15 to 20 whp gain either route. Sadly to me headers, as in the v10 s85, take an exotic engine note and make it a more deep American v8 sound

Not so. You should hear mine.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

we are all getting side track and need to recognize there are multiple discussions going on here. Each has its points but they are separate.

1- Are there gains from ARH? - i believe so. While we haven't seen data provided like bimmerworlds, I expect the headers to have a similar gain NA and a more significant gain FI. The sound, to many, has been an upgrade as well.

2- Are the gains worth the price of the part/install/and potential emissions issues? - Worth will vary per person. Changing headers on any platform comes with emissions risks and no one should do the mod without expecting to either swap out or go through a backdoor smog check.
3- How do the headers compare to competition? schmedmann / bimmerworld / motorsport24?

Good summary. But don't forget weight. The ARH system is a beast. Basically weighs the same as the OEM system from what I saw. That's a lot, considering other systems on the market like the Akra shed 50-60 lbs. from the car.

Just as the relatively small HP increase may be worth it to some, the small weight penalty may not be worth it to others.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Good summary. But don't forget weight. The ARH system is a beast. Basically weighs the same as the OEM system from what I saw. That's a lot, considering other systems on the market like the Akra shed 50-60 lbs. from the car.

Just as the relatively small HP increase may be worth it to some, the small weight penalty may not be worth it to others.

thats a good point too. I didn't consider the weight of their system.

[Nick ARH]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Good summary. But don't forget weight. The ARH system is a beast. Basically weighs the same as the OEM system from what I saw. That's a lot, considering other systems on the market like the Akra shed 50-60 lbs. from the car.

Just as the relatively small HP increase may be worth it to some, the small weight penalty may not be worth it to others.

Hujan, that statement is flatly wrong. There is a considerable weight saving with our system. The muffler section alone has a very dramatic weight difference. Our long headers will naturally be heavier than the factory shorties not only because they're 304 S/S compared to Titanium, they are long tubes with merge collectors, scavenger spikes, 3/8" thick flanges and they extend near the first bend that routes the exhaust to center tunnel. The rest of the mid section, although larger with 3" tubing, is still lighter than the factory counterpart.
Installing an ARH system even with the stock mufflers in place will save about 15-20lbs over stock.

Nick

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Nick ARH

Hujan, that statement is flatly wrong. There is a considerable weight saving with our system. The muffler section alone has a very dramatic weight difference. Our long headers will naturally be heavier than the factory shorties not only because they're 304 S/S compared to Titanium, they are long tubes with merge collectors, scavenger spikes, 3/8" thick flanges and they extend near the first bend that routes the exhaust to center tunnel. The rest of the mid section, although larger with 3" tubing, is still lighter than the factory counterpart. Installing an ARH system even with the stock mufflers in place will save about 15-20lbs over stock.

Nick

You sure?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=168

Originally Posted by Nick ARH

Guys we weighed everything from the stock manifolds and complete stock catted mid section (total 52lbs)and weighed our entire long tube header system with our cats and resonators (total 55lbs). The difference was our system was 3lbs heavier. Considering there's long tubes and larger 3" pipes in our system, I feel the weight difference is negligible in comparison to stock.Without ARH cats we were about 2lbs lighter than stock and even lighter without resonators. We did not weigh our muffler system yet but we will within the coming days. Our system is all 304 S/S and built to last indefinitely. I'm perfectly ok with sacrificing a little weight for durability and longevity.

Nick

[squartus]

Like most things he says its totally just made up, lets not forget the orignal gains he stated the headers made. Oh and that primary cat delete on M3 gave no power gains etc...
Headers may give SC M's gains but who wants to fund a company thats so dishonest to people??

[Nick ARH]

Well I'm wrong and I'm not afraid to admit it. I did go thru the process of weighing both systems a while ago. The 15-20lb weight savings is with the 2 systems complete including ARH mufflers compared to the full stock system with factory mufflers. Leaving out the mufflers the overall weight is nearly negligible. I completely forgot that we re-weighed both systems as complete units and found the weight difference.
The other factor was that we did the comparison with our resonators and cats in place. For those deleting those items there's probably another 7-8 lbs savings. I apologize for the mistake.

Squartus, what a horrible thing to say. If you researched ARH and what we've accomplished (and were honest enough) you'd apologize. We are in the HP making business and our reputation for manufacturing the highest quality header systems is very well documented. Even you would have a significantly more powerful M3 with a set of ARH's bolted on, like it or not.

Nick

[pbonsalb]

Certainly aftermarket headers will weigh more than stock. As for the x-pipe, you have to consider whether there were cats or no cats or resonators. ARH is not denying what it previously said. I suspect that if we checked stock versus other after market x-pipes similarly configured there would be little difference.

[Scrippy]

If JBA silver ceramic headers were available for this platform....I'd slap headers on my M3. The way they close all four pipes at the collector smoothly is legit. I used them on my V8 Tundra prerunner. Headers and a catless pipe system DO produce power and torque. A general rule of thumb with any high performance motor....get exhaust gasses out. If you do that in a more productive LESS RESTRICTIVE MANOR.....you gain. PERIOD