Custom Clevite Rod Bearings

FazerBoy · 12-15-2014, 12:00 PM

I'll have a set too...

Richbot · 12-15-2014, 12:06 PM

Great news. I look forward to seeing results after these get some running time.

I imagine demand will be strong enough for multiple runs if needed. And once the tooling exists it will be way easier to reproduce. Great job getting over the considerable cost and development hump to get these made. This is a platform worth keeping alive and this will hopefully mean lots more good cores available in the long term and lots more people able to enjoy and keep te cars on the road.

DLSJ5 · 12-15-2014, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Oil choice will be up to the end user. We will release our recommendation upon completion of the bearings but there are just too many variables depending on intended use.

Bx Tpr · 12-15-2014, 12:21 PM

In for a set. thanks again for all the work. This is such good news.

Malek@MRF · 12-15-2014, 01:22 PM

Scott, what compelled Clevite to move ahead with this? Last time we spoke about this in detail, I was told by you, that Clevite is hesitant to do this even if the start up cash was funded because of a couple reasons: implications with BMW, and/or that BMW would eventually do some sort of recall (which we both doubted). Curious to know what happened between August and now.

It's great that a proper sized bearing is planning to be manufactured. However this doesn't solve the rod side clearance issue.

modkrazy · 12-15-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

Scott, what compelled Clevite to move ahead with this? Last time we spoke about this in detail, I was told by you, that Clevite is hesitant to do this even if the start up cash was funded because of a couple reasons: implications with BMW, and/or that BMW would eventually do some sort of recall (which we both doubted). Curious to know what happened between August and now.

It's great that a proper sized bearing is planning to be manufactured. However this doesn't solve the rod side clearance issue.

Have there been many occurrences of side rod failures outside of that early Gintani engine?

Malek@MRF · 12-15-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Have there been many occurrences of side rod failures outside of that early Gintani engine?

I can't speak of motors and cars I haven't torn down or worked on myself, but almost all of them have side clearance issues from what I have observed. There are heat spots on the crank/rod side and rod/rod and abrasion on the rods/caps themselves, some worse than others. This premature wear can be found on engines that haven't failed yet as well.

wrecklessfool · 12-15-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

Quote:

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Have there been many occurrences of side rod failures outside of that early Gintani engine?

I can't speak of motors and cars I haven't torn down or worked on myself, but almost all of them have side clearance issues from what I have observed. There are heat spots on the crank/rod side and rod/rod and abrasion on the rods/caps themselves, some worse than others. This premature wear can be found on engines that haven't failed yet as well.

Bingo

modkrazy · 12-15-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

I can't speak of motors and cars I haven't torn down or worked on myself, but almost all of them have side clearance issues from what I have observed. There are heat spots on the crank/rod side and rod/rod and abrasion on the rods/caps themselves, some worse than others. This premature wear can be found on engines that haven't failed yet as well.

Have any of these heat spots/abrasions been the cause of engine failures? I guess what I'm trying to clarify is this is a case of "while we're fixing clearances, let's address this other potential problem point" or "the only reason these things don't die from side rods is because the bearings beat them to it"?

Malek@MRF · 12-15-2014, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Have any of these heat spots/abrasions been the cause of engine failures? I guess what I'm trying to clarify is this is a case of "while we're fixing clearances, let's address this other potential problem point" or "the only reason these things don't die from side rods is because the bearings beat them to it"?

It seems that the bearings do beat the other issues to the punch, however, once the bearings are sized correctly, the other issues will rear their ugly head more often.

But to better answer your question, yes, I have seen a failed engine recently here in the shop with bearings that weren't destroyed but the side of the rods and crank were badly damaged. As a result the rod was bent as well. I wish I could speak for all the engines out there, but I can only discuss what I have observed myself.

Sandye90m3 · 12-15-2014, 03:48 PM

Someone needs to do testing on the bearings that are coming out. Documented analysis and pictures of rod bearings at different intervals (2k, 5k, 10k, 20k).

Time intensive, but we need proof that it actually works. In my opinion, I highly doubt they (WPC and other rod bearings) will work unless there is evidence to back up claims.

aussiem3 · 12-15-2014, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandye90m3

Someone needs to do testing on the bearings that are coming out. Documented analysis and pictures of rod bearings at different intervals (2k, 5k, 10k, 20k).

Time intensive, but we need proof that it actually works. In my opinion, I highly doubt they (WPC and other rod bearings) will work unless there is evidence to back up claims.

We'll be waiting for ever then

This is a great development and will be interesting to get the initial feedback from the early embracers. Regardless, great initiative, and the best service to the /// community. Great jobs all.

thekurgan · 12-15-2014, 04:10 PM

Subscribed.

imstimpy · 12-15-2014, 04:44 PM

This is great news! The bad part of the great news is that I have a set of WPC coated OEM bearings in the mail (ordered last week).

douglee25 · 12-15-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imstimpy

This is great news! The bad part of the great news is that I have a set of WPC coated OEM bearings in the mail (ordered last week).

I can one up you!

I just got my WPC's installed!

Doh!

bigjae1976 · 12-15-2014, 06:36 PM

This seems like a much better and less risky solution than tearing down the engine to grind the crank.

Kudos.

DLSJ5 · 12-15-2014, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

This seems like a much better and less risky solution than tearing down the engine to grind the crank.

Kudos.

I love common sense posts, totally agree.

cris///M3 · 12-15-2014, 06:59 PM

subscribed

Titan9 · 12-15-2014, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

It seems that the bearings do beat the other issues to the punch, however, once the bearings are sized correctly, the other issues will rear their ugly head more often.

But to better answer your question, yes, I have seen a failed engine recently here in the shop with bearings that weren't destroyed but the side of the rods and crank were badly damaged. As a result the rod was bent as well. I wish I could speak for all the engines out there, but I can only discuss what I have observed myself.

how many engine tear downs had FI and how many were NA? did the NA also show "side clearance issues"?

Harpua · 12-15-2014, 08:49 PM

Superb! Count me in for a set as well.

Malek@MRF · 12-16-2014, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan9

how many engine tear downs had FI and how many were NA? did the NA also show "side clearance issues"?

The engines I speak of were all naturally aspirated. I wouldn't bring the FI ones into the discussion, as it doesn't make much of a point to do so.

Either way, it's great this is happening.

e92zero · 12-16-2014, 03:47 PM

Cool! Count me in as well.

Are these custom bearings going to be a limited run or are there going to be continuous production that we can expect to be able to buy them in the future as well?

12-15-2014, 12:00 PM	#45
FazerBoy Lieutenant 45 Rep 514 Posts Drives: BMW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London, UK iTrader: (0)	I'll have a set too...
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12-15-2014, 12:06 PM	#46
Richbot Major General 2835 Rep 5,493 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E90 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: STL iTrader: (5)	Great news. I look forward to seeing results after these get some running time. I imagine demand will be strong enough for multiple runs if needed. And once the tooling exists it will be way easier to reproduce. Great job getting over the considerable cost and development hump to get these made. This is a platform worth keeping alive and this will hopefully mean lots more good cores available in the long term and lots more people able to enjoy and keep te cars on the road. __________________
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12-15-2014, 12:21 PM	#48
Bx Tpr Captain 136 Rep 891 Posts Drives: 23 CSL Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NY iTrader: (8)	In for a set. thanks again for all the work. This is such good news.
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12-15-2014, 01:22 PM	#49
Malek@MRF Brigadier General 789 Rep 3,732 Posts Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, G82 M4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Irvine, California iTrader: (5)	Scott, what compelled Clevite to move ahead with this? Last time we spoke about this in detail, I was told by you, that Clevite is hesitant to do this even if the start up cash was funded because of a couple reasons: implications with BMW, and/or that BMW would eventually do some sort of recall (which we both doubted). Curious to know what happened between August and now. It's great that a proper sized bearing is planning to be manufactured. However this doesn't solve the rod side clearance issue. __________________ BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments. OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook \| Instagram \| Yelp! \| Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 \| E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com
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12-15-2014, 03:48 PM	#55
Sandye90m3 Major 190 Rep 1,157 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Calgary, CA iTrader: (0)	Someone needs to do testing on the bearings that are coming out. Documented analysis and pictures of rod bearings at different intervals (2k, 5k, 10k, 20k). Time intensive, but we need proof that it actually works. In my opinion, I highly doubt they (WPC and other rod bearings) will work unless there is evidence to back up claims. __________________ M3.E90 JZB *Coded.GTSDCT.BomizValved.TurnerTestPipes.ResDelete .EurochargedTune.AAFilter.HRER40s*
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12-15-2014, 04:10 PM	#57
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12-15-2014, 04:44 PM	#58
imstimpy Enlisted Member 7 Rep 46 Posts Drives: 2010 M3 Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	This is great news! The bad part of the great news is that I have a set of WPC coated OEM bearings in the mail (ordered last week).
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12-15-2014, 06:36 PM	#60
bigjae1976 Major General 2013 Rep 8,248 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [6.33] 2011 BMW E90 M3 [6.83] 2013 BMW 328i [6.67]	This seems like a much better and less risky solution than tearing down the engine to grind the crank. Kudos. __________________ 2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red 2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
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12-15-2014, 06:59 PM	#62
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12-15-2014, 08:49 PM	#64
Harpua Private First Class 31 Rep 123 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Ontario iTrader: (1)	Superb! Count me in for a set as well. __________________ "I like my women how I like my coffee -- Without Hitler." SC
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12-16-2014, 03:47 PM	#66
e92zero Captain 220 Rep 874 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 BW Join Date: May 2010 Location: somewhere in US iTrader: (1)	Cool! Count me in as well. Are these custom bearings going to be a limited run or are there going to be continuous production that we can expect to be able to buy them in the future as well?
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