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06-25-2008, 12:35 PM | #45 | |
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What you have shown with the additional lap time data is no victory, it is what in statistics we call outliers . The one, two and four second wins by the M3 (coupe) all represent fairly consistent and in some cases drastic bestings. As well you look at slalom times and speeds and skidpad results from various sources. All confirm what we know, the M3 out handles the C63 AMG. Sure MB have done a good job at narrowing the gap but they are still behind and clearly behind. Heck look at the measly 8:02 N'ring lap time from the 500hp "rac CLK63 AMG Black Series. All that being said I am completely in favor of lots of data and data from all sources. Have a look at the very valuable thread here on the forum (that I have personally put a lot of work into) that serves as a "database" of performance on the M3 and any close competitors. Link here. Feel free to add results, just maintain the formatting and put all new additions in blue. Anyone have Sportauto N'ring times for the C63 AMG or IS-F yet? Am curious about those. |
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06-25-2008, 12:50 PM | #46 | |
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A calculation based purely on total bounding volume scaling (LxWxH) accounts only for about a 3% weight variation or about 100 lbs of difference. That means it is actually a density effect, not a volumetric one. In other words, component by component or the presence/absence of components is the real reason the MB weighs quite a bit more. I guess much of this is likely due to the fairly intense weight management issues undertaken by BMW M. Either way you probably would agree that the MB looks much larger? Part of that is the 18" wheels and four doors... or you could ascribe it purely to "presence" . |
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06-25-2008, 04:20 PM | #47 | |
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It is universally agreed among UK tester at least that the C63 has a much better steering feel and to some they feel it's front end feels the better balanced between grip and slip, when you pull back for going full hog you may just find that the C63 is the sweeter car to steer. Having never driven the C63 I am only putting this possibility out there for debate but it's something I have heard from people I know who are equally skilled at judging the manners and abilities of cars. What I am trying to say is I am a great believer in judging a car's abilities not at total attack mode but at a maximum level you would feel confident to drive at on the road as it's at this level it will most likely be driven at more often. |
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06-25-2008, 04:26 PM | #48 | |
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Maybe the car looks more like a muscle-bound bruiser next to the svelte marathon runner M3? I'm not sure I've mentioned it yet in this thread but just in case anyone's wondering.... I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the C63. Might not be good form to say that on an M3 board, but I am very happy I made the move. With almost 1300 miles on my car now, I have new respect for the MB brand. Variety is the spice of life.
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06-25-2008, 04:56 PM | #49 |
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The pictures in this thread of the C63 wheels are the first one's I've seen that actually make them look good. I think I like them better than the M3 19 inchers. Glad you like your C63 Hans. Traitor.
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06-25-2008, 05:06 PM | #50 | |
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swamp and I should have weighed our wheels. All I know is that it's cheaper to replace an 18" tire, with all the tire-smokin' we'll be doing. doing my best to tempt anyone over to the other side! Yeah, I know... the orange reflectors gotta go!
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06-26-2008, 08:37 AM | #52 | |
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Picture is worth a thousand words:
18.05 01.06 Picture taken on two separate dates, granted the guy may be the worst driver ever to sit in a C63 but I doubt you'll find any M3s taking the shortcut at the Adenauer-Forst. Quote:
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06-26-2008, 09:11 AM | #53 | |
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06-26-2008, 10:03 AM | #54 | |
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But then, so is the M3 reflectors.
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06-26-2008, 02:35 PM | #55 | ||
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Really well said, WCH. Quote:
It's all about the bling with a Benz, you know.
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06-26-2008, 03:37 PM | #56 | |
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So, where's the 26" spinners?
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06-26-2008, 04:21 PM | #57 |
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In response to Hans' comment about the car feeling faster at night. Couldnt agree more. The more power a car has the shittier they seem to drive during the day. At night my car is a beast. During the day.....meh not so much. Its gotten to the point I dont drive my car hard during the day because it is such a letdown.
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06-26-2008, 04:36 PM | #58 | |
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06-26-2008, 05:23 PM | #59 | |
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I had a similar experience "showing off" my C5 Z06 a few years ago. I had a friend with me who wanted to see how fast my new car was. It was the middle of the summer in the San Fernando valley. Damn my car didn't feel any quicker than a V6. And that was 400hp/400lb-ft in a 3080 lb car. Heat soak FTL. Repeating myself again, but last night I floored my car out of a freeway onramp and it was just insane. Took it all the way to redline and the car banged off a nice crisp redline shift and it sounded soooooo good. I was probably going about 120 then.... DOH.
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06-26-2008, 05:25 PM | #60 | |
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How do I meet the gents from Top Gear?
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06-27-2008, 09:57 PM | #61 |
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Heat makes the air thinner (i.e. less dense). Less density means less fuel can be burned per unit of time which means less power. Heat soak is not happening in a NA engine.
A turbo engine compresses (makes more dense) the air before feeding it to the engine. So, theoretically it should get the same performance day or night. However, especially on hot days, turbos will end up heat soaking the engine. This is bad. For those who have never had a convertible, night time is also the best time to drive with the top down. People tell me all the time "It's such a nice day. You should be out with the top down." If they only knew how hot it gets in the sun.
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06-29-2008, 10:40 PM | #62 |
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Good compilation of info on the often misused term "heat soak"
http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/lofi...hp/t36831.html
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06-30-2008, 02:28 PM | #64 |
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I tried getting tickets for Top Gear and their website says there is a 2 year wait... and then there is no waiting list to be found to sign on.... ? I emailed and they didn't respond.
BTW, here is a BRAND NEW ARTICLE comparing the C63 and the RS6 TTV10 estate versions. They also mention the M3. steveD had a hand in this article, and he's posted on mbworld that he prefers the C63 to the M3 sedan. http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=gtrpg#/page2/
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06-30-2008, 02:47 PM | #65 | |
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Jason
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06-30-2008, 02:55 PM | #66 | |
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The article I linked makes it sound like if you are smooth with the C63, it rewards you... up to a point. If you are ham-fisted, the M3 is certainly more forgiving, and ultimately more capable at the limit....
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