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07-10-2012, 12:51 PM | #46 |
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Some stupid douche bag mocking the M brand...
I mean does this guy even own an M car? or maybe even driven one before? ///M for marketing? How can you sell a car without marketing/informing consumers? Posing as a racer while driving M cars? Seriously? I just want to say to the author "F*** Off and mind your own business." The world has changed, the performance car market has changed as well. I think this dude's still stuck in the 70s and 80s mindset.. time to move on my friend! It's a whole different world now, why can't anyone notice this? Bill Caswell, your opinion is acceptable but the way you said it is not cool. Last edited by 3M TAPE; 07-10-2012 at 12:58 PM.. |
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07-10-2012, 12:54 PM | #47 |
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[QUOTE=Smg Ftw;12299404]Bill Caswell has owned more bmw's then probably 90% of the members here.
http://caswellmotorsport.com/?page_id=551 And is supposedly very bitter towards BMW because they do not sponsor him in any capacity. He is rumored to be working with Audi on a future project if that tells you anything. (There is always something going on behind the scenes).
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07-10-2012, 12:54 PM | #48 | |
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There are car manufacturers that are doing just fine financially without those marketing gimmicks. |
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07-10-2012, 12:55 PM | #49 | |
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for the record, my "m sport" 550i f10 is so much better looking than the regular f10. and my e60 m sport was better looking as well. do i feel like a poser bc it has a few m badges on it? no. why would i? dumb |
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07-10-2012, 12:55 PM | #51 | |
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07-10-2012, 12:55 PM | #52 |
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And those in the know say he very bitter towards BMW because they do not sponsor him in any capacity and have basically told him to stop inquiring. He is rumored to be working with Audi on a future project if that tells you anything. (There is always something going on behind the scenes).
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07-10-2012, 12:56 PM | #53 |
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I say this all the time but nobody listens to me. None of us matter to BMW. We are a tiny little piece of BMW's profits. Enthusiasts will still have enthusiast options, but BMW has long since ditched the notion that they are only an enthusiast brand.
Driving is about a host of things from comfort and practicality to speed and handling. These cars still do what they're supposed to do. They have the Ultimate Driving dynamics. Sure, it's a shame that you can't exactly feel the crunchy leaf as you drive over it, but the numbers don't lie. BMW's are immensely capable on the road and on the track. And they're incredibly comfortable, which is something that you used to have to buy a Mercedes for. Everyone complained, "wahhhh my BMW rides too stiffly." Well now it doesn't. You got what you wanted at the expense of fanboy justifications. |
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07-10-2012, 12:59 PM | #55 | |
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They hit the nail on the head. I feel the same way when they started slapping the M badge on the back of everything for another 10+ grand |
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07-10-2012, 01:01 PM | #56 |
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07-10-2012, 01:05 PM | #57 |
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I bet you also believe that the e30 M3 was the best M car ever made.
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07-10-2012, 01:07 PM | #58 | |
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Here is the thing, I have owned performance cars. I owned a highly modified Evo IX that made 400 whp and flew by most cars on HPDEs. The car was raw and amazing to drive, but at the end of the day when it comes to taking your lady out to dinner for a special occasion, or dealing with a loud titanium exhaust system day in and day out, or bucket seats, harnesses, ect, It just becomes a pain in the ass. When buying the M3 I wanted a mix. Performance + Comfort +Use Ability. No other car met the requirements (as Porsches are still out of my comfort zone). I looked at the Laguna Seca Mustang, but solid rear axle was a big killer for me, as well as the price $45,000 when for $5K more you could get into a slightly used M3 with under 10K miles. Ford service department is a joke (I own a F250), and the Mustang to me feels high schoolish, when taking out clients for work (I deal with medical professionals). So no mustang, what does that leave us with: Evo? STi? again high schoolish, ... S5/S4 (no RS5 here), C63? the steering feel sucks on both IMO, and the body styling on the Audis look the same as the base A4/A5. I get what the guy is ranting about in the org article, and I agree with him on a lot of points, but at the end of the day what options are consumers left with??? I really think it was lame of BMW to make the 1M in such limited numbers, and I really hope they make a M2 in the future that is more focused on being basic performance like the E30 M3. |
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07-10-2012, 01:08 PM | #59 |
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...most people do.
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07-10-2012, 01:08 PM | #60 |
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It's easy to oversimplify the M conundrum, but brand equity is not an easy thing to manage as scale increases. Think about it: how can BMW simultaneously keep the M brand special while making enough financial return on their investment in the brand? Scope creep is inevitable, especially as brand status gets figured into the equation.
I had a 1988 E30 M3 from '88 to '91 and it was the most special car I've ever owned. Unfortunately that car is not competitive by today's standards and BMW would be mocked by many if they attempted to introduce a car as simple and pure as the E30 M3 today. Like it or not, the Toyota/Subaru FR-S/BRZ is the closest modem equivalent to an E30 M3 and it sells for under $30K. The "simple performance car" market is basically closed to BMW because there's a lot more competition in that arena today than there was 25 years ago at much lower price points (370Z, Mustang GT, etc.) and BMW has understandably decided to play in a more expensive space to keep their brand status and profits high. At the price points where M cars sell, most buyers want everything: all the power, all the comfort, all the "look fast" bits and all the technology. And at the same time, BMW has to meet increasing regulatory demands -- safety, fuel economy, etc. As a result, the M cars try to be all things to all people and they fail as pure performance cars. But they're selling in record numbers and BMW is a business before all else. If people weren't buying them, BMW wouldn't keep building them. Realistically, what M car can BMW reasonably and profitably produce that would please the old M guard? I would have preferred that the 1M Coupe were a 260HP naturally aspirated N52 variant that was stripped of unnecessary technology and weighed 3,200 lbs or less. That would have felt more like a real M car to me (and I would have bought one for certain), but there's no way BMW could profitably sell that car for under $45K. Even at $45K, the armchair internet racers would lambast it for being underpowered and overpriced (which would also describe almost every NA Porsche for people who don't know any better). It would be an old school success, but a new school failure. So I'm torn -- I am firmly against the idea of M SUVs (and Porsche SUVs) and 4,200 lb. $100K M Sedans but I understand that they serve to underwrite other BMW performance models that I may want, so I begrudgingly acknowledge their purpose. As I see it, the problem is this: I don't think BMW can simultaneously keep the old guard and the new guard happy while remaining profitable, so they're catering to the new, monied customers at the expense of the old school performance enthusiasts. It's really that simple -- they're chasing the new money and it hurts to recognize that fact if you feel left out of the party. The buyers are changing and BMW is changing with them. But before attacking BMW for their strategy, ask yourself this: what M car can BMW realistically produce today that would keep both the old guard and new guard happy while maintaining profitability? It's a much harder question to answer once you really think about it. |
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07-10-2012, 01:08 PM | #61 | ||
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07-10-2012, 01:10 PM | #62 | |
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There are always going to be things going on behind the curtains. If he decides to pursue his racing career further he is going to need to go where the money is and not put his brand loyalty above that. His article is spot on in my opinion. The M brand is becoming diluted. |
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07-10-2012, 01:20 PM | #63 | |
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07-10-2012, 01:20 PM | #64 |
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So now were complaining about companies trying to make money? Give me a break, bmw is a business people, lets not forget that. They have to follow market trends like everyone else. Look at the Ferrari FF, the Cayenne/Panamera, and the Lambo SUV that is in concept. Even the 991 911 has gotten slightly larger and more comfortable. Cars are softening up due to technology and consumer wants, and that's a fact. To say the M division is dead to enthusiasts is really just silly. They just built the M3 GTS for fucks sake.
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07-10-2012, 01:21 PM | #65 | |
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07-10-2012, 01:24 PM | #66 |
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