Saleen tunes a Tesla

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Those you listed are not "average family sedans", those are top performance sedans from luxury brands some over $100k or close. By no means are "average family sedans".

P90D is $120k with the silly "ludicrous" speed "upgrade".

Would you call that an average family sedan?

CTS-V is $85k
M5 is $94k
AMG C63 is $74k
AMG E63 is $103k <- still less than a tesla
S6 is $71k

[Sedoy]

Who called it an average family sedan, I wouldn't even consider Tesla S 70kW an average family sedan. But it's definitely a sedan.

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

P90D is $120k with the silly "ludicrous" speed "upgrade".

Would you call that an average family sedan?

CTS-V is $85k
M5 is $94k
AMG C63 is $74k
AMG E63 is $103k <- still less than a tesla
S6 is $71k

[Fundguy1]

What we are saying the $120k testicle gets its ass handed to it by a lowly dodge sedan in the quarter and twisties costing 1/3 the price. It also doesn't have all the range shortcomings of electrics and sounds mean. I fail to see why anyone would spend triple on a car for crappier overall performance, low reliability ratings, difficulty refueling, limited range, etc. If you like the electronics, spend $20k on aftermarket stuff and pop it into whatever car you want and you'll have superior electronics too. Makes zero sense unless your only goal is to be the only guy with one on the block or to have some ting new and different. Not really worth it to me for the cost of a small house.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

What we are saying the $120k testicle gets its ass handed to it by a lowly dodge sedan in the quarter and twisties costing 1/3 the price. It also doesn't have all the range shortcomings of electrics and sounds mean. I fail to see why anyone would spend triple on a car for crappier overall performance, low reliability ratings, difficulty refueling, limited range, etc. If you like the electronics, spend $20k on aftermarket stuff and pop it into whatever car you want and you'll have superior electronics too. Makes zero sense unless your only goal is to be the only guy with one on the block or to have some ting new and different. Not really worth it to me for the cost of a small house.

You can say that about any fucking car.

Why spend six figures on a Porsche when you can buy a Hellcat? Corvette? Tuned/modded Toyota Echo for less

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You can say that about any fucking car.

Why spend six figures on a Porsche when you can buy a Hellcat? Corvette? Tuned/modded Toyota Echo for less

Because a Porsche 911 is more reliable, handles better, brakes better, is better on the track, and won't leave you stranded waiting if you drive 200 miles away. The hellcat is similar price. It's faster straight line but not in corners. The corvette is less refined. And tuned and model wasn't one of the options I was listing so that's a bogus argument.

Testicles do two things good. 0-60 and bombard you with useless electronics. They loose in cornering, speeds in excess of 60 mph, range, reliability, price. Not a winning combo.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You can say that about any fucking car.

Why spend six figures on a Porsche when you can buy a Hellcat? Corvette? Tuned/modded Toyota Echo for less

Not the same argument, but nice try.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

bombard you with useless electronics

Don't forget the not yet prospectively studied long term effects of those levels of chronic EM radiation exposure. Lol. No thanks. I'll wait until a 20 year study has shown there is no association with health problems on that one. I know what the ill effects of my twin-turbo I6 car are.

[Sedoy]

I would consider Tesla P90D just for 0-60 runs, useless electronics, autopilot, zero-gas stops, looks, exclusivity etc. Why are you applying your car shopping logic for everybody? Don't you have a pile of useless electronics around your house or didn't you make useless 0-60 runs just for fun. You will be surprised but people (including you) do a lot of useless stuff, but who cares if that makes them happy.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Don't forget the not yet prospectively studied long term effects of those levels of chronic EM radiation exposure. Lol. No thanks. I'll wait until a 20 year study has shown there is no association with health problems on that one. I know what the ill effects of my twin-turbo I6 car are.

Oh really... one of those guys?

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1258166

http://www.ahappyhabitat.com/cars.html

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Not the same argument, but nice try.

LOL, it's the same argument. Which is literally "derp derp, why buy car x when you can buy car y that does z better".

But you guys continue hating on a car just because it's something that those evil liberals drive around in.

The rest of us will see it for what it is, an American electric car that fits about 99% of peoples' requirements for a car.

Unless we're to believe most people are eager for a car to take to Virginia International Raceway on weekends.

Would I want to own one? No, because of the range thing, but it's hilarious seeing these political kool aid drinkers act like this car is the second coming of Satan.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Oh really... one of those guys:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1258166

I'm not talking about acute effects. You seem to have confused the difference. What I'm referring to are effects of long term exposure, occurring typically years or tens of years later. You would typically be asymptomatic until then. Fun stuff right?

While we are talking about acute effects like listed in that forum post you linked to, some people are hugely sensitive to it and it can absolutely negatively affect them in their daily lives. It isn't common though. Just because it isn't common doesn't mean it isn't serious, and it also doesn't mean those people are wearing tin foil hats.

[GuidoK]

People have been riding electric trains and trams on a daily basis for ages now, a lot longer than that there are turbo engines

But to keep things safe, scrap your mobile phone and your computer
a mobile phone or wifi connection emits far more em radiation than normal electronics, as they are ment to transmit

And dont go outside because light is also EM radiation

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I'm not talking about acute effects. You seem to have confused the difference. What I'm referring to are effects of long term exposure, occurring typically years or tens of years later. You would typically be asymptomatic until then. Fun stuff right?

While we are talking about acute effects like listed in that forum post you linked to, some people are hugely sensitive to it and it can absolutely negatively affect them in their daily lives. It isn't common though. Just because it isn't common doesn't mean it isn't serious, and it also doesn't mean those people are wearing tin foil hats.

Yeah...yeah it does.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Not the same argument, but nice try.



Don't forget the not yet prospectively studied long term effects of those levels of chronic EM radiation exposure. Lol. No thanks. I'll wait until a 20 year study has shown there is no association with health problems on that one. I know what the ill effects of my twin-turbo I6 car are.

I'm not worried about health effects. Cars are for driving. The more gadgets they get, the worse they are. The Germans got it right. They don't even have cup holders. Who should be drinking while you're operating the car? Music I get. GPS makes sense. The rest is useless gizmos.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

LOL, it's the same argument. Which is literally "derp derp, why buy car x when you can buy car y that does z better".

But you guys continue hating on a car just because it's something that those evil liberals drive around in.

The rest of us will see it for what it is, an American electric car that fits about 99% of peoples' requirements for a car.

Unless we're to believe most people are eager for a car to take to Virginia International Raceway on weekends.

Would I want to own one? No, because of the range thing, but it's hilarious seeing these political kool aid drinkers act like this car is the second coming of Satan.

Who said it was the second coming of Satan? Not me. But it is a one trick pony that I wouldn't even sit in for many reaons. My mortgage loan officer has one. He likes it. He also likes his NSX. He showed it off to me, and being the first one I had seen in person, I was entertained for the moment.

I don't feel the need, or see the rational for electric cars. They are an environmental policy bandaid, and a badly performing one at that.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

People have been riding electric trains and trams on a daily basis for ages now, a lot longer than that there are turbo engines

But to keep things safe, scrap your mobile phone and your computer
a mobile phone or wifi connection emits far more em radiation than normal electronics, as they are ment to transmit

Anecdotal references are anecdotal.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Yeah...yeah it does.

Trump 2016 amirite?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

LOL, it's the same argument. Which is literally "derp derp, why buy car x when you can buy car y that does z better".

But you guys continue hating on a car just because it's something that those evil liberals drive around in.

The rest of us will see it for what it is, an American electric car that fits about 99% of peoples' requirements for a car.

Unless we're to believe most people are eager for a car to take to Virginia International Raceway on weekends.

Would I want to own one? No, because of the range thing, but it's hilarious seeing these political kool aid drinkers act like this car is the second coming of Satan.

Um, I haven't seen the bogus environmental argument once. I hate the car for the other reasons. I could care less about the environmental impact. Give me a car that is good and I'd get it regardless or being good or bad for the environment.

[rcoccultwar]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Not the same argument, but nice try.



Don't forget the not yet prospectively studied long term effects of those levels of chronic EM radiation exposure. Lol. No thanks. I'll wait until a 20 year study has shown there is no association with health problems on that one. I know what the ill effects of my twin-turbo I6 car are.

This article I read is as suspicious as a person who lets their or any dog lick their mouth or ears on national television.

Waking Times

You may already be aware how humanity is killing bees through a variety of methods. In an earlier article The Top 4 Reasons for the Bees Dying Off, I discussed how neonicotinoid pesticides, GMOs, EMFs (electromagnetic fields) and geoengineering were all contributing to disrupting and killing bees, through phenomena like CCD (Colony Collapse Disorder). Mankind is gravely endangering its own survival on the planet by injuring the bees like this, since we are all dependent on bees for pollination and our food supply. Einstein famously said that humanity would only survive for 4 years if the bees were wiped out. There may well be more than 4 ways in which humanity is killing bees, but a recent interview with Gabe Cruz (a former cell phone industry worker who has become a kind of whistleblower and interspecies communicator) reveals that one of these threats may be the greatest of all.

digital-analog-waves1
The digital data signal (top right) is apparently the worst for the bees.

Is EMF Killing Bees Most of All?

In an interview with Miles Johnston, Gabe revealed that he used to work in the mobile or cell phone industry in Britain, and was trained to understand frequencies and bandwidth. As part of his job, he used to carry around a backpack containing all sorts of devices of varying frequencies. Not surprisingly, being so close to so much artificial EMF and RF (radio frequencies) affected his mood, health, behavior and entire life. He later quit his job. What makes this story so interesting is that Gabe was telepathically contacted by the bees, or the bee consciousness, with a crucial message. (Animal communicators such as Anna Breytenbach are able to contact the collective consciousness of other species, which speaks to them in one voice).

The bees haven’t merely communicated with Gabe; they have actively tried to make him understand, and make him experience, exactly what they are going through. This has led him to get headaches, feel disoriented, lose his train of thought and suffer a host of other unpleasant effects. It appears as though the bees, through Gabe, are desperately shouting out to mankind: stop creating artificial EMFs that interfere and jam our frequencies – you’re killing us! At least with pesticides and GMOs, the bees may be able to sense and detect the inherent toxicity of them and avoid them, but as long as they must come in the proximity of mankind with all its wireless technology, the bees will find it hard to avoid artificial EMF.










Harmful Manmade EMFs Severely Disrupting Bee Communication

Did you know that bees have an electrical sense? In relation to each other, bees are positively charged and flowers are negatively charged, so when bees pollinate, the electrical polarity helps the pollen stick to bees’ hair. Like many creatures in the animal kingdom such as birds, bats and whales, bees also rely heavily on sound and EMFs for their very survival, including for orientation, navigation and communication. They transmit and receive on certain frequencies, and if there is too much interference or disruption occurring, it wreaks havoc on their lives. Manmade EMF, especially wi-fi, high-frequency cell phone bands and the digital horizontal block frequencies, are jamming and disrupting the bees’ communication channels to the point of threatening their survival. They have long been adapting and adjusting to the electromagnetic intrusion of mankind, but now the frequencies are becoming too much for them to bear.

The message Gabe is bringing through is borne out by scientific research. In Bees, Birds and Mankind: Effects of Wireless Communication Technologies (Kentum, 2009), German scientist Ulrich Warnke wrote:


“Bees and other insects, just as birds, use the Earth’s magnetic field and high frequency electromagnetic energy such as light. They accomplish orientation and navigation by means of free radicals as well as a simultaneously reacting magnetite conglomerate. Technically produced electromagnetic oscillations in the MHz range and magnetic impulses in the low frequency range persistently disturb the natural orientation and navigation mechanisms created by evolution.”
.
The website Electronic Silent Spring also quotes Warnke as saying that:


“… monocultures, pesticides, the Varroa mite, migratory beekeeping, dressed seed, severe winters, and genetically modified seeds could also explain the bee colonies’ collapse. However, none of these convincingly explains “the fairly sudden and country-spanning appearance two to three years ago of the dying bees phenomenon. Should the bees simply be too weak or ill, they should also die in or near the hive. But no ill bees were found in research into this phenomenon.””
.
Cell Tower
Artificial EMF: you can’t see it, but it’s disrupting and killing bees, and in the long run you too.

Famous whistleblower George Carlo, a former insider in the mobile phone industry who went public to expose the dangers of wireless, wrote strongly about the issue in June 2007:


“Unfortunately, the situation with the bees is a page out of the playbook that we deal with all the time with the mobile-phone industry. When the bee story first broke, it was based on a German study that showed information-carrying radio waves disrupted the ability of bees to make it back to their hives. That work was made public about two months ago … The news media ran with the story … The mobile-phone industry was caught off-guard by the widespread-media attention the story garnered. After the first news cycle, the mobile-phone industry ‘hit squad’ went into action. First, they planted stories that cast doubt on the Einstein quote …

Next, they conscripted scientists from a number of universities to begin going public with other explanations… viruses, bacteria, pesticides etc., etc., etc. These alternatives have been making the rounds over the past month. The mobile-phone industry is putting quite a bit of money into the pockets of these scientists by supporting their work regarding viruses and alternative explanations. The industry is dealing with it as a politics and public relations problem,* thus manipulation of the public perception is the appropriate remedy for them … Most people in the public don’t know the back-story, so they do not see the manipulation coming or have the necessary bases for skepticism to see through it.

But here is the bottom line: The colony collapse disorder has occurred concurrently on four continents within a very short time frame. If the reason was biological or chemical, there would be a pattern of epidemic spread *we would be able to trace the spread of bee disappearance or Colony Collapse Disorder from a source similar to the spread of SARS a few years ago. That is not the case. The condition has hit each continent at roughly the same time. That would mean the cause has to have hit the continents at the same time as well. Mobile phones meet that criterion.”
.
READ: Animal Communicators Prove it’s Possible to Hear an Animal’s Thoughts

Conclusion: Are Bees the Proverbial Canary in the Coal Mine?

Based on the evidence above (both the message through Gabe and the scientific research), it appears that humanity is killing bees at an alarming rate. However, we are not just killing bees. We are killing ourselves. We are electrical and electromagnetic beings. These artificial EMFs, although silent and invisible, are affecting us too, as those who are electro-sensitive can attest. The bees may be warning us before it’s too late, before we bathe our entire world in an artificial EM blanket from which it’s impossible to escape.



Matter comes from energy or consciousness. The field creates the particle. We need to pay more attention to the energetic realm than the physical realm if we want to strike at the root of the problem. As Dr. Robert O. Becker, author of The Body Electric, said:


“I have no doubt in my mind that at the present time, the greatest polluting element in the earth’s environment is the proliferation of electromagnetic fields. I consider that to be far greater on a global scale, than warming, and the increase in chemical elements in the environment.”

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/04/1...ing-honeybees/

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Anecdotal references are anecdotal.

Yes and not driving a tesla because potential harmful EM radiation and still use a mobile phone or computer (wifi/bluetooth equipment) is either ignorant or hypocrite, as they are transmitters of em radiation. That is their primary function.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes and not driving a tesla because potential harmful EM radiation and still use a mobile phone or computer is either ignorant or hypocrite.

How interesting. I'm so happy you're here to help. When I need it I'll be sure to seek you out.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Who said it was the second coming of Satan? Not me. But it is a one trick pony that I wouldn't even sit in for many reaons. My mortgage loan officer has one. He likes it. He also likes his NSX. He showed it off to me, and being the first one I had seen in person, I was entertained for the moment.

I don't feel the need, or see the rational for electric cars. They are an environmental policy bandaid, and a badly performing one at that.



Anecdotal references are anecdotal.




Trump 2016 amirite?

How is that anecdotal? Millions of people ride electric powered trains everyday and have for several decades. In DC the fact that our metro catches fire is a problem...EM radiation is not.

I don't really think it's a one trick pony. People like it because they like the way it looks, they can drive it to work and back without every buying gas, and it can, sometimes, completely drive itself.

Successful, tech loving people are drawn to them. There's a ton of them around here. I don't think people care too much about the enormous torque available instantly since I've never really seen anyone accelerate hard in one.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Successful, tech loving people are drawn to them. There's a ton of them around here. I don't think people care too much about the enormous torque available instantly since I've never really seen anyone accelerate hard in one.

It's a product which sells hugely, I have no doubt there are people out there who like them, or like the idea of being seen in one. Comrade Stalin isn't here threatening to murder folks unless they buy Teslas. Then again, plenty of folks buy BMWs for the badge alone. I don't see it as any different TBH.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

It's a product which sells hugely, I have no doubt there are people out there who like them, or like the idea of being seen in one. Comrade Stalin isn't here threatening to murder folks unless they buy Teslas. Then again, plenty of folks buy BMWs for the badge alone. I don't see it as any different TBH.

What product sells hugely? Electrics are less than 1% of the total US car sales. Tesla isn't turning a profit. It's surviving because of projected sales pumping up its stock price. What happens when those sales don't materialize? Remember the dot Com in 1999? Same scenario. Epets.com

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

What product sells hugely? Electrics are less than 1% of the total US car sales. Tesla isn't turning a profit. It's surviving because of projected sales pumping up its stock price. What happens when those sales don't materialize? Remember the dot Com in 1999? Same scenario. Epets.com

I was referring to the $1000 preorder deposit scheme for the model = I suppose "sell" was a poor choice of word. It's a hype machine IMO.