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05-07-2019, 09:43 AM | #45 | |
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People took bets on how many days before implosion when we ESS supercharged a dedicated track Z4MC car to 550hp. Its owner is the second fastest driver I've met (first is Randy Pobst). Anyway, here we are, three season later, totally stock engine + ESS and absolutely zero issues. |
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05-07-2019, 11:39 AM | #46 | |
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Honestly, this is going to happen to most people in most cars. You will always end up wanting something faster. How else do you think the car companies and aftermarket stay in business?
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05-07-2019, 01:25 PM | #47 | |
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I didn't buy the NAV/GPS and I'm really glad I didn't. I looks like an Atari at this point. |
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05-07-2019, 01:27 PM | #48 | |
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05-07-2019, 01:42 PM | #49 | |
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If a 27k car can have a better interior than a 70k one, something is wrong. But it goes deeper than that and shows a complete lack of commitment to quality which will inevitably show up in different places Apologists will always say it's X fast at the Ring or whatever... but no one is at the Ring every day. Cars have to be good when you're asking real money for them And cue in to my sustained criticism that the C8 Vette will be mid engined. Yet another 'tick the box' exercise from the masters of ticking boxes. [like the GT350...] Spend the resources thrown away ticking a stupid box and build a world class car. Stop making excuses. Build a better driver's car than a GT3, full stop. I'll be the first in line
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05-07-2019, 02:10 PM | #51 | |||
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I honestly didn't know you could get the car without the screen. Interested! The new Camaros are a guilty pleasure for me. I had a couple fourth gen F-body cars once upon a time. They hold a soft spot. But I thought they were kind of big then; I can't imagine I could wrap around the size of the newer cars? |
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05-07-2019, 02:14 PM | #52 |
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You mean the Cantseemaro? ;-)
Those things are a hilarious bang for the buck though. Can definitely embarrass a lot of cars on the track.
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05-07-2019, 02:24 PM | #53 | |
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No need to check your six when your smoking everyone!! Lol
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05-07-2019, 08:27 PM | #54 | |
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05-08-2019, 08:03 AM | #55 |
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I may have already quoted this but I'll do it again. You speak the truth! I don't think it's a specific problem to Vettes though, the world is full of stupidly fast cars driven by bad drivers
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05-08-2019, 12:07 PM | #56 | |
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The chief engineer and even Doug Fehan, the director for the Corvette Racing program, have basically said that in order to keep the car competitive from a performance perspective, they had to move to mid-engine. I don't buy that 100%, but I do understand what they're getting at. The platform is quite old at this point and they're starting to reach the limits of what they can reasonably do without making big compromises. If you read what the chief engineer has said over the years, they've worked very hard to make the car reasonably comfortable and practical for daily use but still give it high levels of performance at an affordable price. The C7 architecture is really just an evolution of the C5 and C6; lots of refinements and electronics to push things this far but you can only do so much with a 20+ year old package. BTW, you do realize that a C7 Grand Sport was just as fast as a GT3 in the Lightning Lap, right?
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05-08-2019, 12:32 PM | #57 | |
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I am supremely aware of the Lightning lap times Vettes put down, that is how I considered one before buying the E90 as a dedicated track car. The speed of the Corvettes is not the problem. They need to build better cars. |
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05-08-2019, 12:44 PM | #58 | |
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Just curious what you mean by "better"? Are you talking about material quality, build quality, features/amenities, or something else? Obviously it is built to a price and you aren't getting the premium interior of the GT3, for example, but that's also why it costs about $50k less. I'm fine with that trade-off and I admit it's far from a perfect car.
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05-08-2019, 12:57 PM | #59 | |
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People have gone from E9Xs to 991 GT3s in this forum and have said the tactile qualities of the GT3 are not better in terms of buttons, clickers, etc. So you do not need a 150-200k car to have a better interior For an example of what I'm talking about, go back to the ZR1 link. Look at the interior pics. In 2001 I had a 330Ci with a steering wheel that looked like that. I found it horrible and swapped it to an M3 steering wheel... that was back when I was practically starving to death to afford the monthly payments on that car... The seats in that ancient 330Ci were also light years ahead of whatever those things are in that poor ZR1... etc etc etc. The development team has to understand that people expect to see better than a GTi interior quality in a car that costs 90k-150k. There is just no going back from that. I'm not trying to bust your chops. There is a market for cars faster than M3s that are not Porsches... I'm in it. And I wish they made those changes so I could buy one
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05-08-2019, 01:25 PM | #60 |
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I get it, and I'm not trying to shill for the Corvette. It has its faults. I wasn't expecting a Porsche-tier car for half the price, but I am also fully aware that there is a Porsche tax/markup. Build quality is adequate for the price. I had to manage my own expectations coming from BMW to Chevy.
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05-09-2019, 01:55 PM | #61 | |
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We go to the track and spend the money for the experience. None of us are walking away with trophies or even bragging rights that change our lives. So if you want the best possible experience, I'd argue that a track car should have: - engaging and consistent behavior at the limit - flexibility to respond kindly to a variety of inputs with consistent results that you can attribute to yourself (rather than electronics) - visceral sound that you can feel - brakes that don't give out - a transmission that invites participation without mis-shifts - reliability to repeatedly eat consumables but not fail otherwise - power to keep up on the straights or even pass if you got the last exit right ... ... - laptimes to talk about The ZR1 doesn't hit nearly as many of those as an E90 M3. The Z06 hits some of them Several Porsches were designed to hit them in order (but for $$$). |
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05-09-2019, 04:02 PM | #62 | |
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My Grand Sport has been able to handle all of those things to my satisfaction -- it's very well-rounded. I haven't tracked a ZR1 or Z06 so can't comment there. Have you guys tracked those cars?
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05-10-2019, 08:49 AM | #63 | |
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I've instructed in Z51 Vettes and driven the C7 Z06 on the street. The rest of the info from Vettes comes from Corvette forums back when I was researching them to buy one |
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05-11-2019, 02:50 AM | #64 |
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Many of the opinions in this thread read like brief exerpts from Lieberman vids/articles.
I’ve owned, tracked, or driven every gen M3 (except an e30), every c7 variant except the zr1, and many porsche’s incl GT3’s and turbo S’s. I currently own an M4 and do not own a corvette. The digs against the C7 interior are mostly inaccurate and overblown. As are the comments about at the limit handling. I’m very happy with my M4 but my last Z06 interior had zero rattles, unlike my M4. I honestly think the e9x, f8x, and all the C7 variants I’ve experienced are excellent cars. They each have their pro/cons but they’re all very good. |
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05-11-2019, 06:25 AM | #65 | |
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