To supercharge or not to supercharge is the question of the day!!

[BrewRifle]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

newb supercharger question:

everyone is mentioning ESS. is there a reason not more members are running a VFE kit?

Historically the tune of the ESS kit was much better than VF, but I haven't heard if they did an overhaul on their tunes. It's the same supercharger, just different routing of some items + the tune.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

newb supercharger question:

everyone is mentioning ESS. is there a reason not more members are running a VFE kit?

Personally, I prefer the look of the ESS manifold and appreciate the fact that there is no need to drill out and remove the OEM airbox bracket. I read somewhere that the ESS supercharger bracket is easier to install, though I imagine this isn't a huge deal. Also, last I checked VF does not have emission compliance software that can be flashed for emission testing which is very important to me. I'm not sure if this is still the case but have not read otherwise. Resale is a little better for the ESS as well since it's so popular around here. Overall, they're both great kits and are very similar.

[L4ces]

What about Active Autowerkes I am not sure but I thought I read it has more low end torque. Anyone know?

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by L4ces

What about Active Autowerkes I am not sure but I thought I read it has more low end torque. Anyone know?

I've heard great things about the AA kit and it does make a bit more low end torque, though not nearly as much as the Harrop since it's still a centrifugal S/C. It does require significantly more modification of the front clip due to the air to air heat exchanger. This is a drawback for me but some people don't care. They are not as common as ESS kits so finding one used is difficult and they are $10k new. Again, for 60% the cost a used ESS or even VF is hard to beat IMO.

There have been plenty of threads discussing and comparing these kits over the years. I strongly recommend you do your own research if you plan to purchase one.

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

newb supercharger question:

everyone is mentioning ESS. is there a reason not more members are running a VFE kit?

There's a tremendous amount of VF Systems on the roads around the world,
it just seems that VF customers tend to be more conservative by nature and
not as active here on the forums.

Our system has always carried a premium (price wise) based on a handful
of distinct features that we consider to be advantageous to not only the
performance, but also simplifying the installation process.



This isn't an S/C comparison thread so we won't get into the details here,
but we just recently posted a video →here ← that covers some of that.

If there are any specific VF Engineering related questions, feel free to ask
them over in the other thread!

[tom @ eas]

We've installed and/or dynoed pretty much every S/C system on the market today. As far as installation goes, the ESS kits perform the best and are the easiest to install as they do not require bracket disassembly for belt routing/replacement, and they have extensive experience in tuning.

Experienced shops love these are they are very simply to install, getting your newly supercharged M3 back in your hands in less time.



There are a ton of ESS systems on the road (more than any other supercharger company) the performance speaks for itself. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions, we're happy to help!

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Also, last I checked VF does not have emission compliance software that can be flashed for emission testing which is very important to me. I'm not sure if this is still the case but have not read otherwise.

I spoke with VF about this and found out their system will set readiness in the same manner as a completely stock car. So if stock cats are in place, readiness monitor testing will pass without the need for an emission-specific tune like ESS. That is definitely an advantage for those of us in states that require readiness monitors to be set as part of emission testing.

[myraygem]

There is no turbo system that is even minimally proven.

[TomHudson]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

I've heard great things about the AA kit and it does make a bit more low end torque, though not nearly as much as the Harrop since it's still a centrifugal S/C. It does require significantly more modification of the front clip due to the air to air heat exchanger. This is a drawback for me but some people don't care. They are not as common as ESS kits so finding one used is difficult and they are $10k new. Again, for 60% the cost a used ESS or even VF is hard to beat IMO.

There have been plenty of threads discussing and comparing these kits over the years. I strongly recommend you do your own research if you plan to purchase one.

The one thing that attracts me to the AA kit is the air to air exchanger I had a previous RMS air water exchanger on E36 that had intercooler pump failure which was a pain in the ass to correct. Afterwards, I was nervous about the pump not working and running without the benefit of the intercooler.
I'm not saying these kiits are going to have that problem, but it's one less thing to worry about.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by TomHudson

The one thing that attracts me to the AA kit is the air to air exchanger I had a previous RMS air water exchanger on E36 that had intercooler pump failure which was a pain in the ass to correct. Afterwards, I was nervous about the pump not working and running without the benefit of the intercooler.
I'm not saying these kiits are going to have that problem, but it's one less thing to worry about.

If you are ok with very extensive modification of the front clip, then the air to air exchanger has benefits that may be attractive to you. I was already weary of the modifications required to mount the air water exchanger so air to air was a big no for me.

The pump is mounted in a very accessible location. Swapping it out in case of failure would be very easy.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If you are ok with very extensive modification of the front clip, then the air to air exchanger has benefits that may be attractive to you. I was already weary of the modifications required to mount the air water exchanger so air to air was a big no for me.

The pump is mounted in a very accessible location. Swapping it out in case of failure would be very easy.

I don't know what the front clip is. Is it replaceable and is it inexpensive?
And what kind of down low torque are we seeing from the AA kit?

[TomHudson]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If you are ok with very extensive modification of the front clip, then the air to air exchanger has benefits that may be attractive to you. I was already weary of the modifications required to mount the air water exchanger so air to air was a big no for me.

The pump is mounted in a very accessible location. Swapping it out in case of failure would be very easy.

That would be good news! On my E36, I had to remove the front bumper...

Not sure how much a replacement front clip is, but with over 10,000 USD plus install, maybe just get a replacement from the wreckers?

[TomHudson]

Originally Posted by L4ces

I don't know what the front clip is. Is it replaceable and is it inexpensive?
And what kind of down low torque are we seeing from the AA kit?

What's down low? All these blowers need to build boost with engine rpm.
I don't think you'd be dissapointed, power wise, unless you're comparing to a Turbo Porker...

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by L4ces

And what kind of down low torque are we seeing from the AA kit?

Perhaps slightly more from higher speed planetary gear drive Rotrex that AA uses than from the slower fixed gear drive blower like the Vortech used by AA and VFE. Nothing dramatic -- it is still a centrifugal and dependent on rpm for boost. If you want low rpm boost, you need a positive displacement blower like the Harrop . . . or one or two responsive turbos . . . and a rebuilt engine.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by L4ces

I don't know what the front clip is. Is it replaceable and is it inexpensive?
And what kind of down low torque are we seeing from the AA kit?

It is technically replaceable but very difficult and expensive. See this thread for more info:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886184

And post 69 here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=943104&page=4

The improvement in low end torque is marginal and not worth the level of modification required IMO.

Originally Posted by TomHudson

That would be good news! On my E36, I had to remove the front bumper...

Not sure how much a replacement front clip is, but with over 10,000 USD plus install, maybe just get a replacement from the wreckers?

You can access it by removing the passenger fender liner.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by L4ces

I don't know what the front clip is. Is it replaceable and is it inexpensive?
And what kind of down low torque are we seeing from the AA kit?

Radiator support is about ~$300, labor will be much, much more when it's time to return back to stock:



Neither the VF or ESS its require cutting the support. Keep in mind that you will limit your reach if selling a car on the used market with a modified/hacked radiator support when it comes to that time.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by TomHudson

What's down low? All these blowers need to build boost with engine rpm.
I don't think you'd be dissapointed, power wise, unless you're comparing to a Turbo Porker...

By down low, I was thinking low in the rpm range and that thinking was triggered from the video with the Harrop. Given the performance of the Harrop due to more torque (perhaps delivered earlier as well) it made sense to consider which SC delivered more torque. I am not going to race anyone in access of 100MPH on the street but, it is very likely that I'll be next to a G35 or a Lexus and when we punch it, I would rather not be behind until ridiculous speeds are reached for a top end pull. Sounds immature but it has happened.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

It is technically replaceable but very difficult and expensive. See this thread for more info:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886184

And post 69 here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=943104&page=4

The improvement in low end torque is marginal and not worth the level of modification required IMO.



You can access it by removing the passenger fender liner.

Very, very helpful.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Radiator support is about ~$300, labor will be much, much more when it's time to return back to stock:



Neither the VF or ESS its require cutting the support. Keep in mind that you will limit your reach if selling a car on the used market with a modified/hacked radiator support when it comes to that time.

At 164K miles... I'm not sure it will sale. As long as I am in control it will be here to stay.
However, I'd rather not cut... I appreciate the info!

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Perhaps slightly more from higher speed planetary gear drive Rotrex that AA uses than from the slower fixed gear drive blower like the Vortech used by AA and VFE. Nothing dramatic -- it is still a centrifugal and dependent on rpm for boost. If you want low rpm boost, you need a positive displacement blower like the Harrop . . . or one or two responsive turbos . . . and a rebuilt engine.

Yes I want low rpm boost so I can save face but I am an older guy and it is my dd and I don't want to announce my presence all the time.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by L4ces

By down low, I was thinking low in the rpm range and that thinking was triggered from the video with the Harrop. Given the performance of the Harrop due to more torque (perhaps delivered earlier as well) it made sense to consider which SC delivered more torque. I am not going to race anyone in access of 100MPH on the street but, it is very likely that I'll be next to a G35 or a Lexus and when we punch it, I would rather not be behind until ridiculous speeds are reached for a top end pull. Sounds immature but it has happened.

An ESS 625/VF 620 kit is still very quick at low-mid RPM, it just starts to get insane at the top end. There is a very noticeable increase in power even at 3k compared to stock. You will have no problem wiping the floor with a G35 or any Lexus. Even a 550 kit would be plenty against those types of cars and would put you roughly inline with an F10 M5.

Originally Posted by L4ces

Yes I want low rpm boost so I can save face but I am an older guy and it is my dd and I don't want to announce my presence all the time.

The whine from the Harrop is much more prevalent so if you are concerned about flying under the radar, keep that in mind.

[cvstar9M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Hehe, HPDE is the most addictive drug on the planet!

For SC'ing, ESS has sold an incredible number of the 625 kits. I'd feel very comfortable with that.

The main reason I don't supercharge is both cars are tracked too extensively and would not manage the additional heat.
The secondary reason is I really like the snarl the intake has when NA
The last reason is the FBO M3 feels antisocially fast already. I am not part of the 'no torque' crowd.
The US is not Europe and I'm truly baffled at all the people who seem to drive faster than me -because they need more hp- on the street which I find on message boards. I'm looking forward to meeting one of these people soon! (7 years and counting...)

Hey OP, I am also considering the same thing so sorry I jumped in for a quick point of clarification: What does a FBO (full bolt on - just learned this lol) e9x M3 consist of? Thanks for the answer. I might try it before I decide on SC. I only have a gintani sport exhaust on so far.