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11-04-2009, 10:17 AM | #507 | |
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But don't lessen the negatives FI systems inherently have. 1) they add weight 2) they add complexity 3) Always going to have lag 4) higher operating temps Give me the choice of FI or NA on a performance car and IMO NA wins out.
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11-04-2009, 10:30 AM | #508 | |
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Thanks for the clarification and education. I was aware of the FR500 version, but not of all the specifics, having not really paid attention to it before. Most of all, I've become curious about the homologation rules.
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11-04-2009, 10:32 AM | #509 | |
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1/ the weight........yes they add a bit of weight, approximately 20Kg depending of configuration and all in the engine bay. Now on the track in the hands of a professional that will show ever so slightly in cornering ability, but in the hands of the rest it will go by unnoticed. Oh I forgot, everyone here is a professional. 2/ Complexity.........yes they are more complex but counter this by being less highly stressed due to less revs. 3/ Lag..........again it's an over played thing by people. On the track it can be an issue but in 99% of situations you should already be on the throttle on entering a corner to balance the chassis so the lag isn't there. On the road you will notice lag more but with the improvement seen in recent years and my own experience with some of the best examples I say it's not an issue anymore. 4/Heat.........this is the one thing that can't be tossed aside like the rest, heat is a problem but until you really up the gain on the engine (i.e. tune it from stock) then they will suffer zero problems. That's what all that hot weather testing in deserts is for. If you prefer N/A then look else where, especially if the product comes from Europe because we here are committed to lowering the CO2 levels and the only way to achieve this is through the adoption of advanced technologies of which FI is one of them. |
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11-04-2009, 11:19 AM | #511 | |
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Oh puhlease, for the love of God!!!! It cannot be dismissed like "oh turbo lag is not a big deal" You are making it sound like turbo offers everything an N/A engine can, which is pure ignorance and biased opinion. Throttle response and sensitivity is what makes N/A engines (especially high-revving engines) completely unparalleled. The best example I can give is of the Porsche 911 Turbo 997 vs Porsche 911 GT3 RS.
Watching video of one-and-only Walter Rohrl comparing the Turbo with GT3 RS, despite Porsche's hectic efforts of reducing the turbo lag using VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry), even their own developer, tester and engineer of Porsche cars clearly stated that the turbo lag and absence of the throttle response of the GT3 RS due to turbo lag are two of the primary factors he would prefer the GT3 RS over 911 Turbo on the track any day. He explicitly explained how the turbo hits full boost hard abrupty mid-corner completely unpredictably due to lag making the turbo much less confidence inspiring while the GT3 RS has the throttle response of surgical precision that does exactly what it is told at exactly the right time. That is what N/A high-revving engines are all about. When we are talking rapid throttle changes across a wider rev range, N/A engines just simply cannot be matched by turbo engines. If Walter himself admitted that it is there and definitely hampers one's ability to carry speed and modulate the throttle through a corner, there is no reason to argue that "oh turbo lag is not a big deal" Turbochargers have lag and it does affect their predictability and response duration and there are no two ways about it. Quote:
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""A great sounding, responsive, high-revving, naturally aspirated engine is part of the DNA of a thoroughbred sports car. No two ways about it."
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11-04-2009, 11:34 AM | #514 |
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[u2b]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n7G6K-i4soQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n7G6K-i4soQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/u2b]
More info: https://www.m-power.com/_open/b/home.jsp?lang=en
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11-04-2009, 11:40 AM | #515 | |
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11-04-2009, 11:41 AM | #517 |
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All I have to say is:
I hope the wing on this car will not create a following as the CSL trunk of the E46 did. I do understand that the CSL trunk was more subtle, but I pray that I don't see M3s with this stuff on, unless it's a real GTS. Oh, and the GTS is pretty sick!
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11-04-2009, 11:47 AM | #520 |
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Ladies & Gents : The New BMW M3 GTS
Its official now ! The new M3 E92 (CSL) is called GTS !!
specifics taken from the M Power World: 450 BHP 1490 kg 6 / 4 piston brake system 6 point harness 255 35 19 F 285 30 19 R Rollbar behind the front seats ( only 2 seats ) Front splitter and Spoiler ( adjustable ) Fire hydrant Racing combo with helmet wicked orange !!!! M3 GTS FTW
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11-04-2009, 11:56 AM | #521 |
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7.28 lb/HP Not too shabby, pretty much same power to weight ratio as a gt3rs.
BTW I don't know if anyone else saw this... but dr. kay segler (head of ///M) said this in an interview about the new m3 gts "This is why a product below the BMW M3 more important to me than a super sports car which is only accessible to a few. As I have already mentioned in other interviews, we are currently looking closely at the options in this area. I hope to be able to tell you more the next time we speak." Looks like we are going to an M version of the 1 series next. https://www.m-power.com/_open/b/edit...lang=en&x=2021
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11-04-2009, 11:58 AM | #522 | |
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Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'd definitely prefer the RS (well, assuming I was going for the fun vs. practicality), but I just don't think straight line performance would be too close, even though PTW favors the RS, due to the Turbo's AWD.
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11-04-2009, 12:01 PM | #523 | |
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So 3250 lbs is how much it will weigh. I was expecting it to be around that much when everyone was saying BMW would be lucky to shave off even a 100 KG. Looks like they have shaved a whole lot more than just 220 lbs. More like 400 lbs.
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11-04-2009, 12:04 PM | #524 |
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Some translations as I´m reading from the German site
the question posed at Mr. Markus Schadow (aerodynamic developer at M): How fast will it do a round on the North Loop? He laughed and said
"be prepared to be surprised !"
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11-04-2009, 12:12 PM | #525 | |
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@ Savage.Ulm we were right up on it thanks to all the doubting thomas´s out there and their great comments @ South: next time I´ll keep you posted too
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11-04-2009, 12:13 PM | #526 |
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Somebody quick, copy that front splitter and sell it as a cheap replica!!
I want it!
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11-04-2009, 12:13 PM | #527 |
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GTS weight
That actually converts to 3,285 lb. Still close to 300 lb reduction, depending on which stock figures you use and how this one was measured.
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11-04-2009, 12:15 PM | #528 |
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