considering some options on a track car...

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by aus

That's what I was going to say. ZO6 at the track are BEAST.

You guys recommending the E46 aren't concerned about the vanos failure that occurs with that engine??

.

I'm not really. The 2 things I will watch are rod bearings and vanos but looking good so far. Oil analysis has been super clean so far. Had them done already earlier in its street days.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by dnvrdrvr

Reliability issues? I have an E36 race car and it runs strong through 3-day race weekends no problem (with a stock radiator). Just did this past weekend. They're easy to work on, parts are cheap and the chassis is a blast. Tires run out before the car does.

I'm not the only one either

If I had to pic between your two options though? E46 all the way.

Well, yours and a few others' E36's running reliably doesn't make all E36's reliable. Similar to OP, I've seen E36's develop all kinds of mechanical & electrical issues at tracks and some of those at very far-away tracks.

I suppose it partly depends on how much effort is put in to prep these cars on an on-going basis. And, for HPDE, not everyone would have the resources to see that happen.

[lcrain]

Of those choices, go e46. But I would go e36. Cheaper (both initial costs and costs to run), can be made to run quite fast. I am considering adding an e36 in the next year or so to modify almost exclusively for HPDE. A track ready e46 M3 is by no means an inexpensive venture, especially a ZCP example. High mile ZCPs are still in the 20k range while a high mile "regular" M3 can be had in the lower teens. The 235 is too new (no mods out there yet, no long term data on track reliability) so I wouldn't even consider it.

As far as reliability, you can find examples of any car breaking at the track. The s50/s52 is as reliable of an engine as BMW has put in an M3. All of the cars you mentioned are going to need regular, thorough and frequent maintenance to perform reliably at the track.

[okusa]

Z06 may be a beast but I know several people that have had significant reliability issues.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by aus

That's what I was going to say. ZO6 at the track are BEAST.

You guys recommending the E46 aren't concerned about the vanos failure that occurs with that engine??

.

The VANOS bolt can back out so that needs to be monitored. Also there is the subframe cracking issue.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by M3 Esq.

The VANOS bolt can back out so that needs to be monitored. Also there is the subframe cracking issue.

if its a track car the subframe would be addressed right off the bat.

[PrimeBMW]

There is also a VANOS rebuild kit with bolt that are upgraded and shouldn't back out.

[PrimeBMW]

A Z06 would be nice if you don't do much to it but it is hard to beat a properly built E46 M3.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

if its a track car the subframe would be addressed right off the bat.

Right I was just thinking if shopping for one those are the biggies along with the rod bearings.

[SYT_Shadow]

I have a 140k E46 M which I use for the track

Changed the rod bearings (did a DIY while at it) which were in pretty good condition

The subframe can be prevented from failing with $300 BMW foam kit

The vanos can be addressed either through Beisan Systems or the TurboToy V3 vanos hub, which is $650. I've had it for 42k (5k at the track) and it looks absolutely new

[dnvrdrvr]

Originally Posted by OC3

I suppose it partly depends on how much effort is put in to prep these cars on an on-going basis. And, for HPDE, not everyone would have the resources to see that happen.

Exactly. Every car setting tires on track - whether it be for HPDE or racing - should have been given at least a once-over to insure it'll hold up to the conditions it'll be enduring. Every club I've run with has their list of what's considered important for Tech Inspection. It's up to you to make sure the car is ready for the rigors of the track. If you can't for whatever reason (ability, knowledge, time), take it to a shop you trust to do the basics(+) for you.

As an aside, the only time I've seen electrical issues with the E36 is when the wiring harness has been cut into. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd consider it a non-issue. OTOH, I've my fair share of E46's crippled due to the electronics not reading the key post-coding. No car is infallible, but I've found the E36 platform to be reliable and fun.

[frostie321]

I would vote an E36 or any car that would allow you to afford a truck and a trailer. The truck gives you a plan B if your car fails and wrecks at a track. You do not have to drive to a track with a stripped out car.

The E36 M3 compared to the other choices, would be cheaper to run, cheaper to modify, and and cheaper to replace. You would learn to carry speed instead of powering out of turns which IMO will make you a better driver in the long run.

If you can afford to wreck the E46 M, then get that.

You do not need traction control to learn a new track, just take it easy the first couple of laps out. Brake early and straight, and just get a feel for the track. Ask for advise/tips and ride alongs during the driver meetings etc.

Just my .02

[auggiem3]

Thank you all very much for the input - I appreciate it!

I'm starting the search for an e46 zcp - will obviously update with progress

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Thank you all very much for the input - I appreciate it!

I'm starting the search for an e46 zcp - will obviously update with progress

good luck drive several before you pick one there will be large variation in how they feel based on use.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I'm not really. The 2 things I will watch are rod bearings and vanos but looking good so far. Oil analysis has been super clean so far. Had them done already earlier in its street days.

you can pretty much bullet proof the vanos now, and I wouldn't worry about the rod bearings. There's sooooo much more wealth of e46 knowledge on the other forum. Are you not on there?

[bigjae1976]

A euro E36 has 321hp factory...that's not far off from the E46. An E46 is heavier even stripped out but I think you get a more robust chassis.

I love putting my E90 M3 DCT on track...it is honestly far beyond an E46 in performance and fun. I'm just waiting out the day until an E9X fits my budget then the E46 will be sold. My E46 is 700lbs lighter, stock power w/ coilovers and it's about as fast as my E90 on non-EDC dampers, Dinan stage 3.

I'm driving an E46M3 because I can get a lot more time on track vs an E90. It's a great car, fun, and capable. But the S54 sounds like shit and underpowered by today's standards.

The E9X M3 is that good and that more exciting! Just drift it a couple of corners...then you'll understand. And the sound? Stock? Love it!

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Thank you all very much for the input - I appreciate it!

I'm starting the search for an e46 zcp - will obviously update with progress

Why a ZCP? I suppose for the track mode traction control. But the brake "upgrade" really isn't even for a track car. The ZCP rotors cost a lot, crack easily, and don't really have any aftermarket options.

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

There is also a VANOS rebuild kit with bolt that are upgraded and shouldn't back out.

The bolts is one issue. The other is the tabs breaking. Check both.

[MTROIS]

Originally Posted by okusa

Z06 may be a beast but I know several people that have had significant reliability issues.

...yep, reminds me of a huge sideways save in turn 10 of WGI last year after the C6 Z06 I was following blew its engine and dumped a whole crap load of oil on the track!!

In your choices, e46 it is, but I went the Euro e36 route. Best chassis and engine combo IMO.

[AWM3ME2]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

A euro E36 has 321hp factory...that's not far off from the E46. An E46 is heavier even stripped out but I think you get a more robust chassis.

I love putting my E90 M3 DCT on track...it is honestly far beyond an E46 in performance and fun. I'm just waiting out the day until an E9X fits my budget then the E46 will be sold. My E46 is 700lbs lighter, stock power w/ coilovers and it's about as fast as my E90 on non-EDC dampers, Dinan stage 3.

I'm driving an E46M3 because I can get a lot more time on track vs an E90. It's a great car, fun, and capable. But the S54 sounds like shit and underpowered by today's standards.

The E9X M3 is that good and that more exciting! Just drift it a couple of corners...then you'll understand. And the sound? Stock? Love it!

Couldn't have said it better myself

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by dmw16

Why a ZCP? I suppose for the track mode traction control. But the brake "upgrade" really isn't even for a track car. The ZCP rotors cost a lot, crack easily, and don't really have any aftermarket options.



The bolts is one issue. The other is the tabs breaking. Check both.

Yeah - its for the MDM mode - I'll be swapping brakes when I do suspension and camber plates...

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

A euro E36 has 321hp factory...that's not far off from the E46. An E46 is heavier even stripped out but I think you get a more robust chassis.

I love putting my E90 M3 DCT on track...it is honestly far beyond an E46 in performance and fun. I'm just waiting out the day until an E9X fits my budget then the E46 will be sold. My E46 is 700lbs lighter, stock power w/ coilovers and it's about as fast as my E90 on non-EDC dampers, Dinan stage 3.

I'm driving an E46M3 because I can get a lot more time on track vs an E90. It's a great car, fun, and capable. But the S54 sounds like shit and underpowered by today's standards.

The E9X M3 is that good and that more exciting! Just drift it a couple of corners...then you'll understand. And the sound? Stock? Love it!

Agreed - I mentioned in the first post that my e92 M3 is a step up over my former e46 M3 on track - I've been doing a few weekends each year with it since I bought it - its great but I'm looking for something cheaper to run.

[S65 Underdog]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I went e90 m3 to e46 m3 for a track car. The e46 turns much better lap times due to being set up without street compromises. I would say go e46 full track build or do the same with your e92, no half measures.

Agreed. I had a few tell me to set my E90 for half track, half street and I disagreed. I just went full track settings for a daily. Will I kill my rear tires faster? Yes. Is my daily driving bumpy so to say because of track coil over settings? Yes.

In the end though I decided to make sacrifice for the better of my car performance and personal preference. If I could afford it I would have two E90's one daily street, one track. E46 would be great to own for a track build. I think its power platform is perfect.