Who tracks with stock brakes?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by MSteve5036

^ lol

/thread

seriously should be a sticky

[AlpineWeiss92]

Thanks for posting that trackwarrior, it really should be a sticky. Thanks to everyone who offered their opinion, I'm looking forward to seeing how good or bad I can manage factory calipers until time and funds permit an upgraded kit.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by AlpineWeiss92

Thanks for posting that trackwarrior, it really should be a sticky. Thanks to everyone who offered their opinion, I'm looking forward to seeing how good or bad I can manage factory calipers until time and funds permit an upgraded kit.

I think that is the best approach. Use it until it gives you a reason to upgrade.

[checkmate]

Upgrading to:

PAGID "YELLOW" RS19 FRONT/REAR
ECS TUNING 'EXACT FIT' SS LINES
MOTUL RBF 600

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by LiM3y

It's the first step in a 12 step program. The next thing you need to do is apologize for offending me with your skepticism.

Lol...I wanna post a pic from South Park from the wheel of fortune episode...but I'm on my iphone

[MasterP]

I just tracked last weekend at Eagle's Canyon Raceway on OEM Rotors, Lines, Calipers. Pads were DTC70's. There's 4 Corners where you brake with with full braking, and 2 more need moderate to heavy braking depending on how entry speed you can carry. Those you might even trailbrake dpending on driving style and setup. Sessions were about 25 minutes long no traffic in advanced groups.

First Session in the AM was cooler, brakes were fine. Did 100% of what they were asked to do. I begin to drive it hard from the last quarter of the warm up lap until the end of the session. Second session it got warmer, and on the very last 3 minutes I finally heated up the brakes to get a limp pedal. I do cool down laps, and then drive the car on the roads outside the track for about 10 minutes to do a real cool down. On the third and fourth sessions it was the same result. Limp pedal towards the end of the sessions. The very last session I lost the pedal 10 minutes in. And as pads wear they can transmit more heat to the calipers, thus the need for backing plates.

I'd definitely recommend brake ducts, and it's an upgrade you can keep with your BBK upgrade when the time comes.

I think a GT3 would be more fun. It's light enough to still use momentum and enough power to enjoy corner exit speeds. Can't drive the E92 momentum style very long.

[AlpineWeiss92]

^^what were the temperatures at the event when this happened?

[MasterP]

Morning started in the 50's. Hit mid 70's by the afternoon.

Track surface warmed so the tires had more grip, which of course burdened the brakes more.

Fluid is RBF600.

[jml]

Originally Posted by zamboni1

Does it really make a difference to turn your heat on full blast? I keep preparing my stock brakes because of all the hype, but now I have to worry about the engine overheating?

Depends on how fast you go and how much you abuse the car. If you have a DCT and keep the car making maximum power every possible inch of the track you can be on the throttle, it will overheat in less than 20min.

[jml]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

I think a GT3 would be more fun. It's light enough to still use momentum and enough power to enjoy corner exit speeds. Can't drive the E92 momentum style very long.

But it's a 911 and very difficult to drive as a momentum car, even being 600-700lbs lighter than a E92....relative to something more balanced. GT3s like to drive straight under power, you have to optimize the corner so that you can get on the power again as soon as possible. There is ungodly traction once the weight is on the rear wheels, and once that happens the steering stops working. Corner entry/mid is hairy when the weight is off the rear. I'm not saying it's not possible, but the GT3 is light years more difficult to drive at the limit - any style - than an M3. This is why you probably pass a lot of them....

[MasterP]

Lol. Nice.

[bigjae1976]

I can probably get the stock brakes to die off in 5 minutes...if I'm just beating the living crap out of them. I ran the same setup but with PF01s. Never had a fade issue although the pads didn't last long.
My main complaint was the on/off feel, longevity of pads, and control. Under threshold braking the back end was all over the place even with ABS.

Might want to relook your braking technique. If you're driving it like a momentum car, you shouldn't be hammering down on the brakes every turn.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I can probably get the stock brakes to die off in 5 minutes...if I'm just beating the living crap out of them. I ran the same setup but with PF01s. Never had a fade issue although the pads didn't last long.
My main complaint was the on/off feel, longevity, and control. Under threshold braking the back end was all over the place even with ABS.

Might want to relook your braking technique. If you're driving it like a momentum car, you shouldn't be hammering down on the brakes every turn.

I had similar experience with pagids and oem calipers and rotors. Ass end was all over under hard braking but was able to manage them fine just wore out the pads fast.

[AlpineWeiss92]

Porsche LSD's are known to be some of the worst available, so I am very used (unfortunately) to the car dancing around in the rear under hard braking. My two local tracks both have long straight's, 145+ with slow corners following, so heavy braking is a concern of mine. It gets very hot and humid here in the summer, so hopefully I upgrade before heat becomes a major concern.

[jml]

Originally Posted by AlpineWeiss92

Porsche LSD's are known to be some of the worst available, so I am very used (unfortunately) to the car dancing around in the rear under hard braking. My two local tracks both have long straight's, 145+ with slow corners following, so heavy braking is a concern of mine. It gets very hot and humid here in the summer, so hopefully I upgrade before heat becomes a major concern.

That's cuz they won't turn with a proper diff....super understeer with a 40-60% locking diff. The stock one is not bad, just set low enough that it barely works as an LSD.

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by jml

Depends on how fast you go and how much you abuse the car. If you have a DCT and keep the car making maximum power every possible inch of the track you can be on the throttle, it will overheat in less than 20min.

I thought that's how we're supposed to drive it.

[jml]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

I thought that's how we're supposed to drive it.

Exactly

[sungjungsc]

I had 987.1 Boxster S and Cayman S before I picked up my E92 M3. Probably, GT3 feels much better than my previous porsches, but my review might be helpful.

OEM Porsche Cayman S Brake system:
Bite: hard (9/10)
Modulation: nice feedback (9/10)
Fade: Yes, but it might depend on how fast you are. If you are beginner/intermediate, you wouldn’t experience fade in most case (you might experience fade due to boiled brake fluids, but not due to rotors and pads)

OEM BMW E92 M3 Stock Brake system:
Bite: soft (5-6/10)
Modulation: moderate feedback (6-7/10)
Fade: Yes (very much). On my first track day, my brakes were fading mostly after 2-3 hot laps. The OEM stock brakes just can’t take heat that much, due to pool design of BMW calipers, no cooling duct, and heavy weight of the car (mine weights 3750 lbs with driver).
Duration: Unknown (but I have seen fast drivers completely destroying the pads in a track day)

OEM Calipers + Rotors + Endless MX-72 pads + Endless RF650 Brake Fluid + Goodridge SS Line:
Bite: moderate (7-8/10)
Modulation: good feedback (8/10)
Fade: No. It was day and night after I upgraded my OEMs instead of going to BBK. Yes, I might not be fast on track, but I am running in average (intermediate/advanced groups) with my stock M3. My point was these upgrdaes were good enough for me to run on the track without being disturbed by brakes.
Duration: It lasted 6 track days.

OEM Calipers + Rotors + PFC-01 Pads + Endless RF650 Brake Fluid + Goodridge SS Line:
Bite: moderate (7.5-8.5/10): it bites pretty well as PFC-01s are metalic pads.
Modulation: (8.5/10) For metalic pads, it was very important to do threshold braking. Once your ABS gets on, your car doesn’t stop well at all.
Fade: No.
Duration: 7-8 track days.

Overall: It would be subject to what you are looking for as all others said, but our cars can’t feel like porsche brakes, which presumably due to the wieght of the cars. Compared to my Cayman S, our car weights 400-500 lbs more roughly. That weight counts whenever you are driving on the track. However, if you are not planning to go track that often, I believe stocks with aftermarket pads, fluids, and lines would be fine. I am planning to BBK since it will be a saving for a long term in my case (I go track 15-20 times a year).

[AlpineWeiss92]

^^thank you for the great comparison. I test drove a 987.2 S over the weekend and was not impressed with the brakes, confirming I've definitely been spoiled by the GT3 brakes, but I am very curious to see how well the stock M brakes perform with some more aggressive pads/fluid. Have first track day at end of the month with the new car (that I haven't purchased yet) but if anyone has some track pads for sale lmk.

[jml]

Originally Posted by AlpineWeiss92

^^thank you for the great comparison. I test drove a 987.2 S over the weekend and was not impressed with the brakes, confirming I've definitely been spoiled by the GT3 brakes, but I am very curious to see how well the stock M brakes perform with some more aggressive pads/fluid. Have first track day at end of the month with the new car (that I haven't purchased yet) but if anyone has some track pads for sale lmk.

911s can use the rear weight to actually get braking force from the rear tires, it's one of the main advantages of the crazy 911 chassis. No BBK or upgrade is going compete with this or the up to 6-700lb difference in weight (My RS is about 3K with a tank and no driver).

[AlpineWeiss92]

No, but I would imagine 6 pistons of a upgraded caliper would help considerably more than single piston BS calipers. My 996 TT had 4 piston fronts vs the 6 on the 3 and the difference was night and day.

[socrates42]

The stock brakes will work for the first track event until you get a BBK. You just have to be sure to let them cool down in motion, not sitting in the pits. I did my first two HPDE seasons bone stock. Warped two sets of rotors though. Then I let them cool property and they stopped warping as quickly. I finally upgraded to stoptech Bbk as the replacement parts are much cheaper. I have some stock sized stoptech street/race pads that are BNIB if you want some additional margin of safety, but, I wouldn't spend much on stock upgrades, just go Bbk when you can.