REVIEW|Evolve Automotive GTS DCT Software

aus · 08-08-2013, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meff

You stated that you "should have gone with Evolve" which suggests that you had in fact chosen another vendor's DCT software and felt you made a bad choice. I wanted to know what you had gone with and why you thought it was a bad choice - do you have updated non OEM DCT software or were you just adding to the forum chaff ?

And if I understand the OP, he got the software for free because he has worked with Evolve in the past and is enjoying a perk from Evolve for being a good client.

You will not get this for free...

He's saying if he had bought EVOLVE, he WOULD be be able to get it for free since he would be an existing customer.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=evolve

.

I'm just wondering if this is the same OEM DCT software the dealers are now handing out for free, or were some tweeks done to it?

.

Meff · 08-08-2013, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozaiya

i did not imply my tune is a bad choice, thats your interpretation.
i cant help but have buyer's remorse when something extra can be obtained for free when others are charging for it.

Ok - I misunderstood. I thought you were indicating you were having problems with your current DCT tune and I wanted to know what/why

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozaiya

and yes they offer it to all their existing clients - http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=857353

That is surprising considering what other vendors are charging but Sal's explanation in the referenced thread makes sense - very stand up vendor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

He's saying if he had bought EVOLVE, he WOULD be be able to get it for free since he would be an existing customer.

See capitulation above...

stevens · 08-08-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

Wrong. Actually, they both have the same hardware except the set of oil filling parts.
More than that: all features which was described in this topic are available through the standard dealership software update. I compared ride on the video vs stock m3 with software E89X-13-03-510. They are the same.
P.s.: sorry for my english

So are you saying the dct update is the same on std m3 as well as gts and its not a gts dct software?

If so then I'd love for some of the other vendors to chime in eg evolve BPM ESS and alpine since its being marketed as gts software to clear this up.

I know evolve are closed until next week.

Neil McRae · 08-08-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

Wrong. Actually, they both have the same hardware except the set of oil filling parts.
More than that: all features which was described in this topic are available through the standard dealership software update. I compared ride on the video vs stock m3 with software E89X-13-03-510. They are the same.
P.s.: sorry for my english

+1 thats what the dealer is saying also. one of the M3cutters has just flashed this new software also.

as I said M3Posters - form an orderly queue

stevens · 08-08-2013, 03:44 PM

Just need vendors to confirm what they are offering then since its gets gts marketed.

flipm3 · 08-08-2013, 04:03 PM

Thanks for the great discussion and valid points in this thread. I will try to respond to them accordingly this weekend. I just wanted to bring up something first.

I had the latest DCT software from the dealer prior to this. During my last service last week, I specifically asked them to check and confirm my DCT software. I was told by my Service Advisor that it was completely up to date, but my MSS60 DME wasn't. Now I'm not 100% as to the validity of his words, but I'll take it for what it is.

Secondly, some of you are bringing up getting the updated Euro/GTS DCT tune from your dealer. I am noticing that those that are claiming that are outside of North America. Sadly, for the majority of us here in the States, I don't think we have that luxury. The standard Euro DCT Software in itself is already an "upgrade" to our standard US DCT Software. So maybe this type of modification is more worth it for us here in North America???

Just something I thought was worth mentioning. Our dealers don't have the liberty to flash our cars with Euro MSS60 and DCT software, which leaves us at a disadvantage. The way I look at it is that this is well worth the upgrade and not something to even think twice about it. Having a US DCT, I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE this little tweak.

Fluffy bastard · 08-08-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevens

So are you saying the dct update is the same on std m3 as well as gts and its not a gts dct software?

If so then I'd love for some of the other vendors to chime in eg evolve BPM ESS and alpine since its being marketed as gts software to clear this up.

I know evolve are closed until next week.

Not at all. As well as I know, ESS has a special software with non-preselective gear's changing. I'm a bit good with encoding/software update and I spent about 2 hours today to flash DCT with GTS-version of software. I completely simulated GTS for NFS by changing i-steps and FA. There is no separate assembly file for GTS. Well, inspite the fact that DCT it isn't encoding ECU...
And yes, I have a euro-version of that car but it's pretty easy to achieve the same thing for US-version.

Sales@Evolve · 08-08-2013, 04:58 PM

Thanks again to Alex for a great review.

Just to again confirm - this is GTS software and it is currently free of charge for all those who have the evolve-R cable.
There are multiple versions of GTS software. We use a specific version.

flipm3 · 08-08-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Thanks again to Alex for a great review.

Just to again confirm - this is GTS software and it is currently free of charge for all those who have the evolve-R cable.
There are multiple versions of GTS software. We use a specific version.

Any time Sal! It's always fun toying with these cars and sharing about it!

Thanks for confirming the foundation of the software. I love it more and more each day. My commute to work has gotten 0.00001 seconds faster now that it recalls my S-Mode Shift Speed

dereksM3 · 08-08-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Thanks again to Alex for a great review.

Just to again confirm - this is GTS software and it is currently free of charge for all those who have the evolve-R cable.
There are multiple versions of GTS software. We use a specific version.

Could you elaborate on this? Good/bad versions, differences, etc?

Neil McRae · 08-09-2013, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

Not at all. As well as I know, ESS has a special software with non-preselective gear's changing. I'm a bit good with encoding/software update and I spent about 2 hours today to flash DCT with GTS-version of software. I completely simulated GTS for NFS by changing i-steps and FA. There is no separate assembly file for GTS. Well, inspite the fact that DCT it isn't encoding ECU...
And yes, I have a euro-version of that car but it's pretty easy to achieve the same thing for US-version.

and this is _exactly_ what my dealer said also. The file is the same one!

Another cutter flashed this software last night:

Quote:

Jeeeez. The GTS software gives a serious kick in the back. Instead of the almost non existent change of gear, it kicks hard on every full throttle shift while remaining smooth as silk on normal throttle. The DSC light was flashing on almost every shift. The slur on high speed downshifts has gone as well.

The shift modes make more sense now. S2 is very smooth, but S5 is viscous.

Bear in mind that I'm comparing this software to the very latest standard DCT version available. It's dramatically different.

So far I'm very impressed. I've no idea if it's the same as the Evolve version but anyone with the offer of a free update or part of their package would be foolish to miss out on the fun.

Mine gets installed on Monday!

stevens · 08-09-2013, 03:45 AM

Posted this on M3Cutters just too add to the mix:

The difference between the two ive read from another thread is the factory GTS switches at 90ms where as standard DCT switches at 140ms but the GTS has a secondary oil cooler and larger clutch pack apparently, so the tuned version of the GTS software is shifting circa 100-110ms hence the difference dealer wont be doing that...

Fluffy bastard · 08-09-2013, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevens

Posted this on M3Cutters just too add to the mix:

The difference between the two ive read from another thread is the factory GTS switches at 90ms where as standard DCT switches at 140ms but the GTS has a secondary oil cooler and larger clutch pack apparently, so the tuned version of the GTS software is shifting circa 100-110ms hence the difference dealer wont be doing that...

Again: there is no additional oil cooler and larger clucth pack in GTS.

stevens · 08-10-2013, 03:58 AM

Tuners are saying otherwise:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=863945&page=5

Post 92:

Quote:
Originally Posted by warp10 View Post
This has been discussed in another thread. That there is no difference in the DCT between gts vs non-gts m3's
There is actually, I do not know about the clutch packs, but I do know the GTS has a secondary cooler, the file has been adjusted to solve the over heating problem. The part numbers and hardware ID are totally different then a standard M3

Not trying to start a war or anything but obviously conflicting storys.

rypik@BW · 08-10-2013, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

Again: there is no additional oil cooler and larger clucth pack in GTS.

Yes, there is different cooler as well as few internal parts changed.
Who speaks german, i think best source for that info would be sir Andreas Pawelenka from Getrag. I bet you know where to find his emaill/tel just to ask...

For nonbelievers i suggest to diggup for 7DCI700 service manual which is floating over web, and check part list - it covers different variations of this gearbox...

Decode any GTS/CRT VIN (eg. E569129) and you easily find that one of after regular production changes was:
0940 Special equipment on demand
Umfang Technik:
* DKG-Getriebe mit erhoehter Oelmenge

There's no doubt GTS/CRT are not 100% equal in terms of DCT/DKG gearboxes. As always choice of believe is yours.
Find appriopriate access to M Gmbh EPC, and then it would be easy to determine which parts were changed....

stevens · 08-10-2013, 11:52 AM

Glad we cleared that up then

rypik@BW · 08-10-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypik@BW

Yes, there is different cooler as well as few internal parts changed.
If you speak german, i think best source for that info would be sir Andreas Pawlenka from Getrag. I bet you know where to find his emaill/tel just to ask...

For nonbelievers i suggest to diggup for 7DCI700 service manual which is floating over web, and check part list - it covers different variations of this gearbox...

Decode any GTS/CRT VIN (eg. E569129) and you easily find that one of after regular production changes was:
0940 Special equipment on demand
Umfang Technik:
* DKG-Getriebe mit erhoehter Oelmenge

There's no doubt GTS/CRT are not 100% equal in terms of DCT/DKG gearboxes. As always choice of believe is yours.
Find appriopriate access to M Gmbh EPC, and then it would be easy to determine which parts were changed....

And should any be worried about differences between GTS and regular M3 ? I would only bother if car would be extensively used on trackdays. Otherwise not, neither i'm going to flashback regular file.

warp10 · 08-12-2013, 02:14 PM

Here is a video of me at Road Atlanta in my E92 M3 with Evolve Stage 2 and DCT Software.

rypik@BW · 08-12-2013, 04:35 PM

Mother of god, what a sound there! Lovely track, seems you're going so cautiously, yet!

warp10 · 08-12-2013, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rypik@BW

Mother of god, what a sound there! Lovely track, seems you're going so cautiously, yet!

Yeah I could have shaved some more time but the stock brakes are the down fall build to much heat. Fixing soon though

rypik@BW · 08-12-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warp10

Yeah I could have shaved some more time but the stock brakes are the down fall build to much heat. Fixing soon though

I bet once you get used to this circuit, feel more comfortable and find proper braking points you'll find your brakes as good enough! :-) Anyway, GL and keep on tracking!

Alex@Alpine · 08-14-2013, 01:43 AM

The GTS flash provided by us, the vendors, is not standard Euro DCT, and it is not the standard GTS file. It has been tuned down for reliability and no overheating issues. The file as I'm sure Sal will tell you is the same across the board. Higher or low price tags will not change what your getting. While some sell it for hundreds, others like Sal offer it free with their tune.

I just wanted to address everyone's doubts and concerns with what is actually being offered since this is a hot topic.

If any of my customers have kept their cable I can flash you over to Euro DCT, that also starts in D, then I can flash you back to GTS and you can post your feelings

Hope this helps...

08-08-2013, 03:44 PM	#27
stevens Second Lieutenant 8 Rep 219 Posts Drives: e92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	Just need vendors to confirm what they are offering then since its gets gts marketed.
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08-08-2013, 04:03 PM	#28
flipm3 E46 + E90 + F80 226 Rep 2,907 Posts Drives: E46 + E90 + F80 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Illinois iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00] 2002 BMW M3 [0.00]	Thanks for the great discussion and valid points in this thread. I will try to respond to them accordingly this weekend. I just wanted to bring up something first. I had the latest DCT software from the dealer prior to this. During my last service last week, I specifically asked them to check and confirm my DCT software. I was told by my Service Advisor that it was completely up to date, but my MSS60 DME wasn't. Now I'm not 100% as to the validity of his words, but I'll take it for what it is. Secondly, some of you are bringing up getting the updated Euro/GTS DCT tune from your dealer. I am noticing that those that are claiming that are outside of North America. Sadly, for the majority of us here in the States, I don't think we have that luxury. The standard Euro DCT Software in itself is already an "upgrade" to our standard US DCT Software. So maybe this type of modification is more worth it for us here in North America??? Just something I thought was worth mentioning. Our dealers don't have the liberty to flash our cars with Euro MSS60 and DCT software, which leaves us at a disadvantage. The way I look at it is that this is well worth the upgrade and not something to even think twice about it. Having a US DCT, I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE this little tweak. __________________ G87 M2 8AT \| Black Sapphire . Black F80 M3 DCT\|Alpine White . Black Leather E90 M3 DCT\|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth \| My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT\|Silver Grey . Impulse Cloth E46 M3 6MT\|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather \| My Build Thread
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08-08-2013, 04:58 PM	#30
Sales@Evolve Major 101 Rep 1,063 Posts Drives: Slow Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Luton, Bedfordshire iTrader: (0)	Thanks again to Alex for a great review. Just to again confirm - this is GTS software and it is currently free of charge for all those who have the evolve-R cable. There are multiple versions of GTS software. We use a specific version.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-09-2013, 03:45 AM	#34
stevens Second Lieutenant 8 Rep 219 Posts Drives: e92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	Posted this on M3Cutters just too add to the mix: The difference between the two ive read from another thread is the factory GTS switches at 90ms where as standard DCT switches at 140ms but the GTS has a secondary oil cooler and larger clutch pack apparently, so the tuned version of the GTS software is shifting circa 100-110ms hence the difference dealer wont be doing that...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-10-2013, 03:58 AM	#36
stevens Second Lieutenant 8 Rep 219 Posts Drives: e92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	Tuners are saying otherwise: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=863945&page=5 Post 92: Quote: Originally Posted by warp10 View Post This has been discussed in another thread. That there is no difference in the DCT between gts vs non-gts m3's There is actually, I do not know about the clutch packs, but I do know the GTS has a secondary cooler, the file has been adjusted to solve the over heating problem. The part numbers and hardware ID are totally different then a standard M3 Not trying to start a war or anything but obviously conflicting storys.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-10-2013, 11:52 AM	#38
stevens Second Lieutenant 8 Rep 219 Posts Drives: e92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	Glad we cleared that up then
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08-12-2013, 02:14 PM	#40
warp10 Lieutenant Colonel 809 Rep 1,723 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 Jet Black:ZCP, ZCV, ZP Join Date: May 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga iTrader: (7) Garage List 2011 M3 [10.00] 2011 28i X3 [0.00]	Here is a video of me at Road Atlanta in my E92 M3 with Evolve Stage 2 and DCT Software. __________________
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08-12-2013, 04:35 PM	#41
rypik@BW New Member 21 Rep 18 Posts Drives: S65/S85 Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: EURO-spec iTrader: (0)	Mother of god, what a sound there! Lovely track, seems you're going so cautiously, yet!
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08-14-2013, 01:43 AM	#44
Alex@Alpine Colonel 1368 Rep 2,452 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: United States iTrader: (50)	The GTS flash provided by us, the vendors, is not standard Euro DCT, and it is not the standard GTS file. It has been tuned down for reliability and no overheating issues. The file as I'm sure Sal will tell you is the same across the board. Higher or low price tags will not change what your getting. While some sell it for hundreds, others like Sal offer it free with their tune. I just wanted to address everyone's doubts and concerns with what is actually being offered since this is a hot topic. If any of my customers have kept their cable I can flash you over to Euro DCT, that also starts in D, then I can flash you back to GTS and you can post your feelings Hope this helps...
	Appreciate 0 Quote