Rod Bearing Shop Input Needed

[fivaxis]

600 rod bearing changes really? My rod bearings are from the factory and have 154k miles on them. I’ve been hearing about rod bearings for the whole 7 1/2 years of ownership and at first I was concerned but now it’s just annoying. I found if you spend more time driving the car and less time worrying about it you will get more enjoyment out of it.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by fivaxis

600 rod bearing changes really? My rod bearings are from the factory and have 154k miles on them. I've been hearing about rod bearings for the whole 7 1/2 years of ownership and at first I was concerned but now it's just annoying. I found if you spend more time driving the car and less time worrying about it you will get more enjoyment out of it.

Not sure why you're annoyed? Yes, lots of folks have replaced their bearings which provides peace of mind to drive more and worry less!

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by fivaxis

600 rod bearing changes really? My rod bearings are from the factory and have 154k miles on them. I’ve been hearing about rod bearings for the whole 7 1/2 years of ownership and at first I was concerned but now it’s just annoying. I found if you spend more time driving the car and less time worrying about it you will get more enjoyment out of it.

You do you.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I would say VAC is overcharging and stand by my statement that BE is charging a premium for providing a premium service. BE would be the better choice for Clevite bearings for someone who wants to or feels the need to spend $600 on rod bearings.

That's different than what you said earlier. Earlier it was 2-3x for the premium service. No, it's only $30 for the premium service and that was before custom boxes, custom inserts, and custom stamps; the price has never changed. If we could find out the profit margin on ACL, I'd bet it's higher than BE.

Or BE is the better choice for people who want the best bearings in the world and recognize all of the work, research, and continued testing and published tests that go into it. Show me the same from ACL please, along with their profit margin.

[pbonsalb]

I still disagree that the $600 bearings are 3 times as good as the $200 bearings. Are you really writing that your profit margin is $30 on the $600 bearings?

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Yes, lots of folks have replaced their bearings which provides peace of mind to drive more and worry less!

It would be very interesting to see the failure rate of cars that have undergone rod bearing replacement and compare that to the failure rate of originally installed OEM bearings. Admittedly, it's an impossible metric to obtain but it would be really interesting. Now, please don't misinterpret my curiosity. I am not debating whether bearings are an issue or not; I am merely pointing out that opening up the engine for these swaps can introduce some element of risk (e.g., poor workmanship, worn main bearings, etc.).

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

It would be very interesting to see the failure rate of cars that have undergone rod bearing replacement and compare that to the failure rate of originally installed OEM bearings. Admittedly, it's an impossible metric to obtain but it would be really interesting. Now, please don't misinterpret my curiosity. I am not debating whether bearings are an issue or not; I am merely pointing out that opening up the engine for these swaps can introduce some element of risk (e.g., poor workmanship, worn main bearings, etc.).

Sure, we're in the data age and everyone wants reassurance. The truth is, bearings are not a complicated job nor a big investment. For me, it was one less worry when spending hours (and $$$) on the track sustaining 5-8k rpm.

If your car sees the occasional rip on the highway or canyon, and you don't want to change them because you believe in "proper warmups". Don't change them. Who cares?

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I still disagree that the $600 bearings are 3 times as good as the $200 bearings. Are you really writing that your profit margin is $30 on the $600 bearings?

Moving the goal post again? BTW, that's not how profit margin is defined.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Moving the goal post again? BTW, that's not how profit margin is defined.

Your words: “No, it's only $30 for the premium service and that was before custom boxes, custom inserts, and custom stamps; the price has never changed.” If that is true, I would be really surprised.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

It would be very interesting to see the failure rate of cars that have undergone rod bearing replacement and compare that to the failure rate of originally installed OEM bearings. Admittedly, it's an impossible metric to obtain but it would be really interesting. Now, please don't misinterpret my curiosity. I am not debating whether bearings are an issue or not; I am merely pointing out that opening up the engine for these swaps can introduce some element of risk (e.g., poor workmanship, worn main bearings, etc.).

If the data is available, then it is doable. Since you're only comparing "failure rates" (a ratio of failures to installations), then the comparison would be valid, I think.

We've been called in to analyze a few replacement failures, both BE and non-BE. IIRC, all of them have been determined to be installation errors, not a random rod through the block as we see on OEM. So my seat-of-the-pants view is that the failures on the replacements has been very small.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Your words: “No, it's only $30 for the premium service and that was before custom boxes, custom inserts, and custom stamps; the price has never changed.” If that is true, I would be really surprised.

My comments were a direct response and in the context to yours. At this point with every post moving the goal post and not understanding the basics of profit margins, I don't even know what you're trying to prove now.

[pbonsalb]

Non response, which I did not expect. I agree that you did a lot of research, have provided a lot of information, and remeasure after Clevite measures to your specs so your sets are even more closely matched. My guess is that after selling probably 10,000 sets, you have recouped your initial investment and are doing just fine in the profit department.

But there are competitors and you are charging 4 times what one of them, ACL, charges for rod bearings. I don’t think your bearings are 4 times as good or worth 4 times as much.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Non response, which I did not expect. I agree that you did a lot of research, have provided a lot of information, and remeasure after Clevite measures to your specs so your sets are even more closely matched. My guess is that after selling probably 10,000 sets, you have recouped your initial investment and are doing just fine in the profit department.

But there are competitors and you are charging 4 times what one of them, ACL, charges for rod bearings. I don’t think your bearings are 4 times as good or worth 4 times as much.

So buy another brand of bearings that you feel is worth it.

Is an 8 cylinder worth it? Maybe you should drive a 4 cylinder, it will get you from point A to point B just the same. The 4-cylinder will take 87 octane since 91 might not be worth it also.

[pbonsalb]

Now you are going low, by being sarcastic, which is very uncharacteristic of you. I see I have struck a nerve because you have chosen to avoid responding with the meaningful post and explanation that would be typical for you.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Now you are going low, by being sarcastic, which is very uncharacteristic of you. I see I have struck a nerve because you have chosen to avoid responding with the meaningful post and explanation that would be typical for you.

You were better when you stuck to stating your opinion; you are entitled to that. However, when you go off script and start talking about people's business models, singling out one vendor and not others who charge the same (or more), then it's no longer about stating your opinion --it's about promoting your agenda. You were asked multiple questions, but instead of providing meaningful answers yourself, you changed your objection and moved the goal post with each new response. Now you want to complain when I gave you a sarcastic response. LOL.

I'm in a position to know much more about the profit margins of ACL than you are to know about any bearing vendor like ACL or BE. Knowing what I do about ACL and the regular solicitations BE gets to have bearings made abroad, I'm 60-40 in saying that ACL has higher profit margins than BE.

If you don’t feel that BE's parts/service are worth it, when you feel the need to voice that only about BE brand and not others, then it does not help the community. Many support and appreciate what BE offers. BE's price is essentially the same as another competitor who do not offer the same service. BE becomes a bargain when you look at it like that. Also, BMW 702/703 bearings are more expensive which means once again BE's service could carry a bigger premium. Based on my position as owner of Auto Talent, I think more people still install OEM + WPC than aftermarket bearings. In other words, they install the highest priced choice of all, yet you're conspicuously silent about that. The people really gouging the market are those who sell mixed ACL bearings for an extra $100 per set by doing nothing more than changing the packaging. That's another topic you're conspicuously silent about.

So let's be clear: if you asked a question that went unanswered, then I missed it. You did talk about things that you had no knowledge like business models, profit margins and value propositions. Things like value propositions aren't yours to decide on behalf of the consumers, that decision belongs to the consumers themselves. Things like business models and profit margins are way outside of your level of knowledge. So my advise is stick to what you know. State your opinion, you're entitled to it. Go buy the cheapest you can find and sleep good at night knowing that you advised others to save 9% on their bearing jobs by going with the cheapest solution they could find that had no quality control behind it.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

You were better when you stuck to stating your opinion; you are entitled to that. However, when you go off script and start talking about people's business models, singling out one vendor and not others who charge the same (or more), then it's no longer about stating your opinion --it's about promoting your agenda. You were asked multiple questions, but instead of providing meaningful answers yourself, you changed your objection and moved the goal post with each new response. Now you want to complain when I gave you a sarcastic response. LOL.

I'm in a position to know much more about the profit margins of ACL than you are to know about any bearing vendor like ACL or BE. Knowing what I do about ACL and the regular solicitations BE gets to have bearings made abroad, I'm 60-40 in saying that ACL has higher profit margins than BE.

If you don’t feel that BE's parts/service are worth it, when you feel the need to voice that only about BE brand and not others, then it does not help the community. Many support and appreciate what BE offers. BE's price is essentially the same as another competitor who do not offer the same service. BE becomes a bargain when you look at it like that. Also, BMW 702/703 bearings are more expensive which means once again BE's service could carry a bigger premium. Based on my position as owner of Auto Talent, I think more people still install OEM + WPC than aftermarket bearings. In other words, they install the highest priced choice of all, yet you're conspicuously silent about that. The people really gouging the market are those who sell mixed ACL bearings for an extra $100 per set by doing nothing more than changing the packaging. That's another topic you're conspicuously silent about.

So let's be clear: if you asked a question that went unanswered, then I missed it. You did talk about things that you had no knowledge like business models, profit margins and value propositions. Things like value propositions aren't yours to decide on behalf of the consumers, that decision belongs to the consumers themselves. Things like business models and profit margins are way outside of your level of knowledge. So my advise is stick to what you know. State your opinion, you're entitled to it. Go buy the cheapest you can find and sleep good at night knowing that you advised others to save 9% on their bearing jobs by going with the cheapest solution they could find that had no quality control behind it.

I think you should look at this less objectively or less from a personal standpoint as part of the company. what he is stating that a set of BE bearings cost the customer 600. ACL that offers the extra clearance set cost 130. then You have another mixed set offered by lang at 250. So in regard to material cost the BE (clevite) is 4 times the price of the ACL extra clearance that is sold by a vender not in the BMW community. So when he says profit margin he is talking about raw price comparison based off that.


customer that come to me I offer both and let them choose i've in stall both. I however never recommend factory 702 bearings with WPC treatment. but that's just me personally.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

You were better when you stuck to stating your opinion; you are entitled to that. However, when you go off script and start talking about people's business models, singling out one vendor and not others who charge the same (or more), then it's no longer about stating your opinion --it's about promoting your agenda. You were asked multiple questions, but instead of providing meaningful answers yourself, you changed your objection and moved the goal post with each new response. Now you want to complain when I gave you a sarcastic response. LOL.

I'm in a position to know much more about the profit margins of ACL than you are to know about any bearing vendor like ACL or BE. Knowing what I do about ACL and the regular solicitations BE gets to have bearings made abroad, I'm 60-40 in saying that ACL has higher profit margins than BE.

If you don’t feel that BE's parts/service are worth it, when you feel the need to voice that only about BE brand and not others, then it does not help the community. Many support and appreciate what BE offers. BE's price is essentially the same as another competitor who do not offer the same service. BE becomes a bargain when you look at it like that. Also, BMW 702/703 bearings are more expensive which means once again BE's service could carry a bigger premium. Based on my position as owner of Auto Talent, I think more people still install OEM + WPC than aftermarket bearings. In other words, they install the highest priced choice of all, yet you're conspicuously silent about that. The people really gouging the market are those who sell mixed ACL bearings for an extra $100 per set by doing nothing more than changing the packaging. That's another topic you're conspicuously silent about.

So let's be clear: if you asked a question that went unanswered, then I missed it. You did talk about things that you had no knowledge like business models, profit margins and value propositions. Things like value propositions aren't yours to decide on behalf of the consumers, that decision belongs to the consumers themselves. Things like business models and profit margins are way outside of your level of knowledge. So my advise is stick to what you know. State your opinion, you're entitled to it. Go buy the cheapest you can find and sleep good at night knowing that you advised others to save 9% on their bearing jobs by going with the cheapest solution they could find that had no quality control behind it.

I have absolutely zero agenda. I have obviously struck a nerve, because instead of addressing the questions, you are attacking the questioner. Clearly, you have no interest in actually discussing your profit margin, admitting it is not the $30 you claimed earlier, or admitting you have sold over 10,000 sets of bearings and recouped any R&D long ago. You should just be direct and honest and state that you charge 4 times what the competition is charging and that you think that is fine because you have a good product and people are willing to pay for it. Attacking people who raise questions and raising questions about the profit margins of others is just avoidance.

You are putting words in my mouth that you know never came out if it. I have never suggested to anyone that they save 9% on rod bearings. I did say that your bearings are 400% the price of the competitions bearings and that they are not 400% better. It is unfortunate you are acting this way. Until now, you have been pretty open and up front, but clearly discussion about your prices and profit margins is getting you wound up tight enough to lash out at people.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I have absolutely zero agenda. I have obviously struck a nerve, because instead of addressing the questions, you are attacking the questioner. Clearly, you have no interest in actually discussing your profit margin, admitting it is not the $30 you claimed earlier, or admitting you have sold over 10,000 sets of bearings and recouped any R&D long ago. You should just be direct and honest and state that you charge 4 times what the competition is charging and that you think that is fine because you have a good product and people are willing to pay for it. Attacking people who raise questions and raising questions about the profit margins of others is just avoidance.

You are putting words in my mouth that you know never came out if it. I have never suggested to anyone that they save 9% on rod bearings. I did say that your bearings are 400% the price of the competitions bearings and that they are not 400% better. It is unfortunate you are acting this way. Until now, you have been pretty open and up front, but clearly discussion about your prices and profit margins is getting you wound up tight enough to lash out at people.

I'll bet you can tell how much of a nerve it struck by how fast I responded.

No matter how much you want it...

I can't respond to your made up definition of profit margin. I can't respond to your made up numbers of bearings sold. I can't respond to your made up assumptions that I am BE when BE is not on this forum and I own Auto Talent. I can't respond to your constantly moving goal posts other than pointing them out.

But I can respond in the style of Dr. Seuss because maybe that will be funnier and still get the point across.

I can't answer to the things you don't know.
I can't answer for others to know.
I can't make up an answer for you.
I'm not anything like the people who do.
I see you make up numbers to stick.
But when I don't answer, you call me a d*ck.
I'm not the person you think that I am.
I am from Auto Talent and named Sam-I-Am.

[pbonsalb]

Normally you have responses that address the issues. Here, you clearly do not want to discuss your profit margin. It is obvious I have touched a nerve. You know that long ago you made back your investment and are now charging 4 times what the competition charges mostly to compensate yourself for double checking the manufacturer’s quality control and sorting bearings into more precise groupings. That is fine and quite profitable, and obviously many want to pay a lot more for that service.

Just be real about what is going on instead of trying to avoid the topic or attacking the questioner. You are continually putting words in my mouth that I never uttered. This type of behavior just makes you look bad. Anyone can read my posts in this thread and see that I never called you a d*ck.

I actually think you provided a great service by creating the data on S65 bearings and that BE bearings are a quality product. My point is simply that they cost 4x that of the competition, are not 4x better, and there is now a large profit margin since you have sold over 10,000 sets and recouped your R&D and initial manufacturing costs.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Normally you have responses that address the issues. Here, you clearly do not want to discuss your profit margin. It is obvious I have touched a nerve. You know that long ago you made back your investment and are now charging 4 times what the competition charges mostly to compensate yourself for double checking the manufacturer’s quality control and sorting bearings into more precise groupings. That is fine and quite profitable, and obviously many want to pay a lot more for that service.

Just be real about what is going on instead of trying to avoid the topic or attacking the questioner. You are continually putting words in my mouth that I never uttered. This type of behavior just makes you look bad. Anyone can read my posts in this thread and see that I never called you a d*ck.

I actually think you provided a great service by creating the data on S65 bearings and that BE bearings are a quality product. My point is simply that they cost 4x that of the competition, are not 4x better, and there is now a large profit margin since you have sold over 10,000 sets and recouped your R&D and initial manufacturing costs.

BE’s Profit margin is not an issue so addressing it is a moot point. Profit margin does not have to be shared since BE is a private company.

“Now BE prices are 4x what competition charges?”

“Now” being the key word: Prices have been the same since day one.

Your lack of knowledge (other phrases can be used) is what is dumbfounding. Your ASSumtions about cost is incorrect and irrelevant which is why it’s not being addressed. Your lack of understanding of business or understanding of business is backwards. I won’t use an analogy since you probably won’t get it. So a business is to cover costs and once they do then prices should drop down to a competitor? If the competition has a product made from different material, different finish and different manufacturing process then BE should be sold at the same price? BE is a business that makes profit just like most companies.

Analogy time: Based on your ASSumtions, a restaurant should sell food for cost after they cover costs for the day.

A restaurant charging $10 for eggs and toast when it costs less than $0.50 for 2 eggs plus toast is insane!!

With that being said, BE uses farm fresh eggs from free range chickens that wander on grass with fresh air, sunshine and room to roam that eat natural things like bugs and what chickens eat. The bread is American artisan bread made from locally grown wheat watered with triple filtered water and hand milled in small batches, same eggs as above, water from snow capped mountains, fine yeast, kosher sea salt and cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil.

I think you look bad by continuing to push a point about profit margin. However, it brings up a good point about how much time and effort BE has put into making the best product possible for a price that is comparable to others. The compliment about BE doing a great service and providing data is surely appreciated. We solely offer and support BE (from the beginning) for that very reason.

Fact: BE’s bare cost is more what ACL sells for.

[Green-Eggs]

Oh...profit margin has nothing to do with the topic at hand which is “Rod bearing shop input needed”

[pbonsalb]

Another non-answer, avoidance of discussion of why your bearings cost 4 times that of the competition when you have sold so many thousands of sets that you recovered all your costs long ago, and more personal attacks on me through your language about ASSumptions. It is so obvious that I have struck a nerve by bringing to light your huge profits.

Sure, try to distract people with your fact that your cost is more than ACL’s $150 street price. Maybe ACL’s cost is $100 and yours is $200. ACL makes $50 profit and you make $400 profit.

Remember when you tried to suggest in this thread that your profit was only $30? You avoided responding to that when I quoted your words.