MCS Triples or Ohlins TTX Triples?

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by slicer

I'm on my second set of TTX and absolutely love them. Quick build times, great service, pro quality and durable. I have had zero issues with my kits. The US distributor that I use carries plenty of stock and can get a set built and shipped in as quick as 1 week.

What are the spring rates you’re running with the ttx? It seems the ttx maybe cannot take as much spring as the mcs? Also are the ttx custom valved or a off the shelf valving?

[slicer]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

What are the spring rates you're running with the ttx? It seems the ttx maybe cannot take as much spring as the mcs? Also are the ttx custom valved or a off the shelf valving?

TTX are made order. They can handle whatever spring rate you desire. Philosophically Ohlins uses lower rates for better grip. Additionally the TTX design is more responsive (especially on small bumps) therefore higher rates are not needed. High rates don't do you any favors when it comes to grip. There's a balance - obviously you can't go too low of a rate.

I'm running 650 front with 425 rear (true coilover). I had an 800 lb rear when divorced.

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by slicer

TTX are made order. They can handle whatever spring rate you desire. Philosophically Ohlins uses lower rates for better grip. Additionally the TTX design is more responsive (especially on small bumps) therefore higher rates are not needed. High rates don't do you any favors when it comes to grip. There's a balance - obviously you can't go too low of a rate.

I'm running 650 front with 425 rear (true coilover). I had an 800 lb rear when divorced.

I understand that higher spring rates don't necessarily mean more grip.

But the E9x platform can use pretty high spring rates if properly set up. Similar to the E46 and E36 platforms before it though the suspension is slightly different.

[tsk94]

I believe the factory GT4's used a TTX system, and they were high rates aswell. Between 900-1100 up front and 700-900 in the rear in a coilover. As Slicer said, they can handle whatever rates you want.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I believe the factory GT4's used a TTX system, and they were high rates aswell. Between 900-1100 up front and 700-900 in the rear in a coilover. As Slicer said, they can handle whatever rates you want.

From my review of parts diagrams:


M3 GT4

Front suspension
Ohlins TTX shock
140-60-160 to 200 nm
60-60-2 helper
378mm rotors
9.5 et25 plus 5mm spacer

Rear
Ohlins TTX 36 shock
Coilover
160-50-130 to 170 nm
80-50-20 helper
355mm rotors
10 et40 plus 15mm spacer

The M4 GT4 plus the M8 GTE use Ohlins TTX as well. Not to mention Singer Porsche, Pagani and Koenigsegg.

[GORDON.M3]

would MCS hold up in the winter by any chance guys?

[SYT_Shadow]

The factory GT4s do run TTX and it's always interesting to hear the thoughts of the owners of said cars about TTX vs MCS regarding longevity between rebuilds.

The spring rate is discussed every now and then on the forum like a source of great mystery. I am not a suspension engineer and don't plan on becoming one, so I choose a shop that only races BMWs (Bimmerworld) and follow their advice, which is how I've ended up running 700/1000 and 800/1100.

So far their advice is spot on. If I recall correctly the NASA TT3 record at WGI is 2:00 with psycho aero, fully stripped and R7 tires. I have a 2:04 while fighting Porsche traffic with a full weight E90 with no aero that drove to the track and R1 tires I brought in the rear seat. It is clear the MCS suspension delivers.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

would MCS hold up in the winter by any chance guys?

MCS says yes but I haven't tried the theory. The MCS cars sit in the garage during winter

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

would MCS hold up in the winter by any chance guys?

Adding coilover covers will help protect the damper bodies as well as piston shaft/seals. I’m using them on the front and rear of my 240ix with MCS 2WRs.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...ng-Covers.html

[GORDON.M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

MCS says yes but I haven't tried the theory. The MCS cars sit in the garage during winter

I have a friend that has a set of MCS 3ways and deciding if I should pick it up. But considering my cars a daily driver I'm a bit worried about how its going to hold up in the winter.

[RickyBobby]

I've had my ttx from psi for over 5 years now and its hands down the best suspension I've ever owned - and the support from psi is amazing. For me reliability is important since I don't have the time to wrench on cars anymore. I haven't had one issue, squeak, rattle or leak on the ohlins since I've owned them.
You are correct in that they use much less spring rates than other setups. When I first got them, I reused they spring from my previous setup and had to lower them (back to psi's original recommendation). The mechanical grip of the lower spring rates feel improved to me but I don't have any empirical data other than seat time in each.

You certainly can't go wrong with bimmerworld products and support, so you have a serious first world problem on your hands.
Good luck!

[GewoW]

Originally Posted by dparm

What do the Schirmer M3s run?

Originally Posted by tsk94

Nitron's

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/nit...sis-p2837.aspx

They also have rear coilover setup
Complete reworked arms in rear
Roll center correction
Honestly nothing near achievable with plug and play suspension

[e36clubracer]

Just an update, had a good conversation with PSI on the Ohlins. They’re going to work up a quote on some triple adjustables with a divorced rear setup. The one thing that surprised me is it seems they don’t do many divorced rear configurations and they would have to do a little “engineering” to package something together. They thought it would take a few days to get me a quote.

[e36clubracer]

Has anybody worked with PSI on the TTX to spec something other than what the average joe would drive on the street? It seems like their PSI Raceline kit is a street/track product. I asked some pointed questions and the answer I get is you can do whatever you like but with no advice minus here is what everybody does. They don't seem used to deviating from the regular options they provide with that kit? I guess my rub is they don't really know BMWs in particular? Anybody have any advice on the TTX? I honestly think it is a more advanced product.

With that being said I'm kind of leaning towards the MCS as Bimmerworld can provide great support and the MCS is still excellent.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Has anybody worked with PSI on the TTX to spec something other than what the average joe would drive on the street? It seems like their PSI Raceline kit is a street/track product. I asked some pointed questions and the answer I get is you can do whatever you like but with no advice minus here is what everybody does. They don't seem used to deviating from the regular options they provide with that kit? I guess my rub is they don't really know BMWs in particular? Anybody have any advice on the TTX? I honestly think it is a more advanced product.

With that being said I'm kind of leaning towards the MCS as Bimmerworld can provide great support and the MCS is still excellent.

I think the key difference between Moton, TTX, JRZ, etc and MCS is that with MCS you will receive a setup that has been developed and tested by a pro race car driver who has dedicated his life to racing BMWs and can provide a 'base setting' which is not a base setting at all, it is a fully thought out solution including sway bars, front/rear rates, height, spring lengths, etc that has been tested and tweaked for many hours.

It doesn't really matter if shock X is more technically advanced than shock Y -and it is not-, the concept of a suspension set up that is specific to the E9X M3 is worth more than any other paper advantage.

Give Bimmerworld a call, ask for Phil, ask him about 'Danny's' setup.

Edit: I think this topic is a little like asking which suspension to put on a Corvette. You have LG Motorsports which specifically develops goodies for the Vette, but then you have the 'usual suspects' of MCS/JRZ/Moton etc that also 'have' kits. My research into Vettes isn't all up to date, but if LG is what they seem to be, it would be a pretty easy decision to choose them. dparm you have may some comments to add on the Vette-specific example

[Bartledoo]

That LG guy is a madman (I watched the 6" wood block test that dparm mentioned in horror).

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

That LG guy is a madman (I watched the 6" wood block test that dparm mentioned in horror).

That's Lou for you and it's s why he's got the credibility -- and his race records speak for themselves. He was the only privateer team to ever run a Corvette and challenge the factory-backed Corvette Racing team in ALMS. He even sued GM for trying to prevent him from competing and had a judge rule that GM engaged in unsportsmanlike conduct:

https://jalopnik.com/did-gm-illegall...te-rac-5768373

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bp/gm-fla...195205400.html

Anyway, everything he sells is what was developed in-house for use on his race cars. I'm sure MCS, JRZ, etc. all have stellar products, but the only other shock that has a racing pedigree for the platform IMO is Penske as I believe that's what the Corvette Racing team used. I was asking about Tractive because it is a unique product that retains the adjustable ride without sacrificing track performance. The factory magnetic ride systems are known to have issues on very sticky tires: the fluid overheats and the shock performance falls off.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Has anybody worked with PSI on the TTX to spec something other than what the average joe would drive on the street? It seems like their PSI Raceline kit is a street/track product. I asked some pointed questions and the answer I get is you can do whatever you like but with no advice minus here is what everybody does. They don't seem used to deviating from the regular options they provide with that kit? I guess my rub is they don't really know BMWs in particular? Anybody have any advice on the TTX? I honestly think it is a more advanced product.

With that being said I'm kind of leaning towards the MCS as Bimmerworld can provide great support and the MCS is still excellent.

I have worked with PSI on multiple sets. They have been great to deal with and have gone out of their way to accommodate. In fact, we have worked together to machine special mounts to allow for the widest possible tires in the front with their kit. They have their own machine shop and custom make vehicle-specific mounts. As far as specific setup recommendations (compression / rebound settings) I would have to agree that they are not providing a ton of support. That's where the shop you work with comes in. Additionally there is a lot of knowledge here on the forum regarding spring rates.

Ohlins by slicerM, on Flickr

Ohlins by slicerM, on Flickr

Ohlins by slicerM, on Flickr

Ohlins by slicerM, on Flickr

[admranger]

Originally Posted by slicer

I have worked with PSI on multiple sets.

So pretty.

Where’s the third adjuster?

[slicer]

Originally Posted by admranger

So pretty.

Where's the third adjuster?

This is a 2-way kit. Compression and Rebound. 4 way is optional.

[e36clubracer]

Slicer, I know PSI does good work. But everyone I've heard from on the TTX goes with that PSI gave them. Nobody really knows why other than what PSI says. I've heard you can valve the TTX how you like but everyone seems to stick with the basic config from PSI. But yes to your point you can work with a shop on spring rates. Maybe I'm expecting too much but at the same time at the price point I expect more?

Honestly leaning towards the MCS 3 way or entertaining the MCS 4 way too. Hoping to get some more info from BW tomorrow on those.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Slicer, I know PSI does good work. But everyone I've heard from on the TTX goes with that PSI gave them. Nobody really knows why other than what PSI says. I've heard you can valve the TTX how you like but everyone seems to stick with the basic config from PSI. But yes to your point you can work with a shop on spring rates. Maybe I'm expecting too much but at the same time at the price point I expect more?

Honestly leaning towards the MCS 3 way or entertaining the MCS 4 way too. Hoping to get some more info from BW tomorrow on those.

I have gone with rates slightly higher than their recommendation. I can tell you that I see no reason to pick rates higher than that with the TTX. My car weighs 3250 with 1/2 tank. Have the people you spoke with been happy? Not sure why it's a bad thing if PSI recommends spring rates that work well?