Replace my e90 ZCP w/ Lexus GSF?

[Deebo]

I would say that if you’re tired of the E90 or it’s too high strung for you in daily use, then maybe take a test drive of the Lexus and see what you think. It sounds like you’ve already done a lot maintenance, so consider that sunk cost vs. having to trade in/ pay sales tax on a different $50k car. Probably a wash to put more money into the M3 or spend the money to change cars.

[Richbot]

GSF is rad - that's a great motor

Comparing it to the turbo cars is missing the whole point of the car. It talks to the driver, makes all the right noises, steers with the throttle and it's not too fast to enjoy blasting through 3-4 gears on a regular-ass day when an onramp opens up or what-have-you. Our W212 E63 is just too damn fast and has too much traction to be playful at low speeds. It's an animal, and getting shoved into the seat is fun, but it's relatively one-dimensional compared to GSF as a driver's car. And it's "slow" compared to the latest crop of ubersedans. And yeah it's fast and fancy and european but it's also already broken a lot, with under 31,000 miles it's had more go wrong with it than my E90M with 116,000 on it. My tundra has 46k on it and has had zero failures and that's likely going to be true at 146k. Toyota's V8's are amazing engines. Buy now and ignore all those M5's and S7's and the like, they may be faster, but all street cars are the same speed as the Grand Tour recently pointed out, what you want is to have more fun on the way there

Of course, you'd also be an idiot to get rid of an E90M, so assuming you're that stupid, you'll ignore this advice

[GT3fan]

I love my e90m with the big exception of parking at work. If I had surface parking it would be a nonissue, but not an option. Envious of those who work from home.

The big plus of the GSF is reliability.

Touch decision

[bkfastwagon]

Make sure you're okay with its design. It's definitely an acquired taste. Strange mix of outdated features and funky new details. E90 is imo one of the best looking sedans and has much more coherent design.

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by GT3fan

Looking for a possible change and better reliability.

I’ve enjoyed my m3 for the past 2+years. I intended to daily drive it, but only drove it a couple thousand miles. The main reason is because I park in a 12 level parking structure and the LSD groans a lot around every tight corner to the top.

Also, I’ve had to replace the TA’s and HVAC condenser at considerable expense. Now my Indy recommends the valve covers replaced due oil leaking, which smells after a hard run. Bad luck on this 1 owner car w/ under 50k when I bought it I guess.

Has anyone driven a GSF? They are relatively rare and prices have come down a lot. 2016’s are now about $50. I don’t track the car or drive in the canyons anymore and have a 911 as my fun car.

I’ve watched positive reviews on them. Chris Harris prefers it over the f10 m5 and the smoking tire guy raved about the GSF. Motor trend preferred the CTSV, but I don’t need a ballistic missile anymore and prefer a hassle free car instead.

Thoughts?

Hi, I have a 17’ GSF. Here is my review:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468190

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by GT3fan

Looking for a possible change and better reliability.

I’ve enjoyed my m3 for the past 2+years. I intended to daily drive it, but only drove it a couple thousand miles. The main reason is because I park in a 12 level parking structure and the LSD groans a lot around every tight corner to the top.

Also, I’ve had to replace the TA’s and HVAC condenser at considerable expense. Now my Indy recommends the valve covers replaced due oil leaking, which smells after a hard run. Bad luck on this 1 owner car w/ under 50k when I bought it I guess.

Has anyone driven a GSF? They are relatively rare and prices have come down a lot. 2016’s are now about $50. I don’t track the car or drive in the canyons anymore and have a 911 as my fun car.

I’ve watched positive reviews on them. Chris Harris prefers it over the f10 m5 and the smoking tire guy raved about the GSF. Motor trend preferred the CTSV, but I don’t need a ballistic missile anymore and prefer a hassle free car instead.

Thoughts?

-Engine is glorious. The sound is amazing. Plus it has useable power/torque. I find every on ramp or empty road to redline it
-Comfortable daily driver, great hwy cruiser
-I’m at about 12K miles, decent gas mileage 25 HWY. So I usually end up at 320 miles when low fuel light comes on.
-Looks are subjective and depend on your tastes. I have always been a fan of the F cars.
-the front bottom lip is carbon fiber, and expensive. I’ve been careful but it still has knicks and scratches.
-19 in rims are hard to clean and brake dust is an issue, but manageable
-Tires have a nice thick sidewall which aides in comfy ride
-it’s not going to beat a M5, but if that’s what your goal is, I would look elsewhere
-the infotainment mouse sensitivity can be adjusted and isn’t as bad as everyone says it is.
-It has an active sound control button, so you can turn it off. It does not pipe in fake engine noise, it emits a frequency that cleans up the engine noise that you do hear. With that said, i just leave it on because the engine sounds great with or without it.
-The aftermarket is not big due to it being a low production car. Hence I have yet to put on an exhaust that is to my liking and budget.
-Being a NA engine car, I don’t plan on ever selling it or trading it in. These will be hard to find in the future outside of domestic muscle.

That’s all I can think of at the moment.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by GT3fan

Looking for a possible change and better reliability.

I’ve enjoyed my m3 for the past 2+years. I intended to daily drive it, but only drove it a couple thousand miles. The main reason is because I park in a 12 level parking structure and the LSD groans a lot around every tight corner to the top.

Also, I’ve had to replace the TA’s and HVAC condenser at considerable expense. Now my Indy recommends the valve covers replaced due oil leaking, which smells after a hard run. Bad luck on this 1 owner car w/ under 50k when I bought it I guess.

Has anyone driven a GSF? They are relatively rare and prices have come down a lot. 2016’s are now about $50. I don’t track the car or drive in the canyons anymore and have a 911 as my fun car.

I’ve watched positive reviews on them. Chris Harris prefers it over the f10 m5 and the smoking tire guy raved about the GSF. Motor trend preferred the CTSV, but I don’t need a ballistic missile anymore and prefer a hassle free car instead.

Thoughts?

Here are my experience

I was exactly in your scenario when my E90 M3 6MT was due for an upgrade and I picked the GS-F over everything else as it seemed like the most logical upgrade as it keeps the high revving (relatively speaking) NA V8, 4 Door and RWD.

GS-F drives very similar to a more torquey E90 M3 and the transmission shifts very fast when driven aggressively. The GS-F maybe heavy for 467HP but it still drives very nimble as it is lighter than similar sized performance cars such as the E53/63 or M5. With full bolt-on and tune, the GS-F will be around 440-450 whp which is plenty if you are coming from a E90.

The GS-F is more like the Scion FRS of the Sport/Super Sedan segment, where it's emphasis is not only on acceleration (although 0-60 in 4.3 is not that slow) but rather driver involvement, steering with throttle (Torque Vectoring Rear Diff), handling and etc.

Another thing for me was the reliability aspect, of course there are turbo charged or more technologically advanced motors with tight tolerance that responds so well to tune but the GS-F has a V8 motor derived from the tried and true Toyota trucks and SUVs (All in the Toyota UR engine family). Yes, not as high revving exotic or with all cutting edge technologies, but I can live with that.

The way I look at it is, I can trade the 20% HP deficit or the 1 second slower of 0-60 time or the numerous seconds slower than M5/E63 on this and that track for 200k + reliability and piece of mind (Especially in my financial situation as I don't have the means to swap cars every 2-3 years especially with the depreciation on the performance European cars).

I am willing to spend similar money but only have 80-90% of the fun of a full M or AMG but knowing that my car will last well into 200k range (many high mileage ISFs). In the end I don't have a M or AMG, but I still have a relatively light (~4000 lbs) and practical large sedan with naturally aspirated 7300 RPM V8 RWD and 467 hp.

[kyrix1st]

Bad idea.

Both Toyota and Nissan still benchmark E9x M3 for their luxury coupes.
Some insider info for you

[dozaiya]

YA CRAZY

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by shu5892001

Here are my experience

I was exactly in your scenario when my E90 M3 6MT was due for an upgrade and I picked the GS-F over everything else as it seemed like the most logical upgrade as it keeps the high revving (relatively speaking) NA V8, 4 Door and RWD.

GS-F drives very similar to a more torquey E90 M3 and the transmission shifts very fast when driven aggressively. The GS-F maybe heavy for 467HP but it still drives very nimble as it is lighter than similar sized performance cars such as the E53/63 or M5. With full bolt-on and tune, the GS-F will be around 440-450 whp which is plenty if you are coming from a E90.

The GS-F is more like the Scion FRS of the Sport/Super Sedan segment, where it's emphasis is not only on acceleration (although 0-60 in 4.3 is not that slow) but rather driver involvement, steering with throttle (Torque Vectoring Rear Diff), handling and etc.

Another thing for me was the reliability aspect, of course there are turbo charged or more technologically advanced motors with tight tolerance that responds so well to tune but the GS-F has a V8 motor derived from the tried and true Toyota trucks and SUVs (All in the Toyota UR engine family). Yes, not as high revving exotic or with all cutting edge technologies, but I can live with that.

The way I look at it is, I can trade the 20% HP deficit or the 1 second slower of 0-60 time or the numerous seconds slower than M5/E63 on this and that track for 200k + reliability and piece of mind (Especially in my financial situation as I don't have the means to swap cars every 2-3 years especially with the depreciation on the performance European cars).

I am willing to spend similar money but only have 80-90% of the fun of a full M or AMG but knowing that my car will last well into 200k range (many high mileage ISFs). In the end I don't have a M or AMG, but I still have a relatively light (~4000 lbs) and practical large sedan with naturally aspirated 7300 RPM V8 RWD and 467 hp.

This!

Q: what mods do you have on your GSF? I’m looking for a decent exhaust.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by Skkhmund

This!

Q: what mods do you have on your GSF? I’m looking for a decent exhaust.

I currently don't have much mods, I have an apexi catless/resonated mid pipe. The sound is almost stock like when idling, driving normally, has 0 drone but it does get much deeper when above 4k. It gets noticeably louder while gunning through tunnels/bridges vs OEM.

I will probably eventually pair it up with a PPE header since that's where the most hp is at, while keeping the stock axle back for the looks and keeping sound level in check.

I also picked up an RR racing AOS and Apexi High Flow filter, but I am not sure if the RR racing AOS is needed as it may be overkill seen how reliable these motors already are without the AOS.

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by shu5892001

I currently don't have much mods, I have an apexi catless/resonated mid pipe. The sound is almost stock like when idling, driving normally, has 0 drone but it does get much deeper when above 4k. It gets noticeably louder while gunning through tunnels/bridges vs OEM.

I will probably eventually pair it up with a PPE header since that's where the most hp is at, while keeping the stock axle back for the looks and keeping sound level in check.

I also picked up an RR racing AOS and Apexi High Flow filter, but I am not sure if the RR racing AOS is needed as it may be overkill seen how reliable these motors already are without the AOS.

I was thinking about Apex as well. Exhaust wise, only options that are not expensive would be Greddy or Tanabe. I’m leaning towards Tanabe though.

[Damage Inc]

Why not M5 at that point vs. Lexus?

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc

Why not M5 at that point vs. Lexus?

Normally I would have considered an m5 in the past. However, reliability has become my focus trying to reduce expenses with my car hobby now that I have a kid in a private university at almost $80k annually and another kid going to college two years from now, so I have to cut unnecessary expenses. The joys of parenthood!

I plan to drive this replacement vehicle for probably ten plus years and needs to last over 200k miles and be reliable. I have serious doubts of M car reliability at high mileage.

Hence the consideration of the GSF.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by GT3fan

almost $80k annually

[pbonsalb]

That is with living expenses. Lots of stories of young graduates with $300k in loans.

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by Visceral

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

That is with living expenses. Lots of stories of young graduates with $300k in loans.

The joys of parenthood that many of us have the pleasure of experiencing.

We just hope our kids make good use of their educations and appreciate the hard work that both the parents and kids go through to obtain the degrees.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by shu5892001

I currently don't have much mods, I have an apexi catless/resonated mid pipe. The sound is almost stock like when idling, driving normally, has 0 drone but it does get much deeper when above 4k. It gets noticeably louder while gunning through tunnels/bridges vs OEM.

I will probably eventually pair it up with a PPE header since that's where the most hp is at, while keeping the stock axle back for the looks and keeping sound level in check.

I also picked up an RR racing AOS and Apexi High Flow filter, but I am not sure if the RR racing AOS is needed as it may be overkill seen how reliable these motors already are without the AOS.

If anyone cares, I still have the same gs-f, 8 year old car now. The car is FBO since 2020 (Catless Equal length headers, Catless X-pipe, Filter and Tune) makes around 440whp and currently has 75k miles and has been bulletproof. Only major repair I had was a coolant leak in the valley plate which is a common issue with Toyota and Lexus V8s, it was fixed for about 2k. Other than that just normal oil changes and etc.

[BimmerMan33]

I see that this thread is from 2019.
Assuming this dilemma arises in 2024,
I’d say an E90 M3 is rare & unique, none of the current sedans look as sporty while still being understated at the same time, the E90 by itself has aged extremely well..

I personally would pick the IS500 if looking for reliability but still no manual..

There is no e90 sized 4 door sedan with NA V8 & MT on the market!! Therefore, IS500 would be the best alternative but that too may not be around for much longer!!

[Golddots]

Good timing that I stumbled upon this. I also think the is500 is the only real new substitute for an e90m3 . I actually test drove one a month ago and have been considering selling my e90 for an is500 recently.

[14_deltaM3]

There is one very credible replacement- Cadillac CT4 V with a manual. I would say it’s far closer (in size, mission, feel and gear shift) to an e90 m3 than the Lexus.

[BimmerMan33]

CT4V blackwing MT is definitely closer to E90 M3 in terms of driving dynamics BUT does not have a special feeling V8!
Not only do you lose the V8 but also it’s turbocharged. At that point you might consider the Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio..
If manual transmission is a must have, then I guess CT4 V it is.