Rod Bearings - to do them or not?

[Tut4u2]

It wildly blown out of proportion. They sold ~60k of these cars through their run. How many forum members have actually experienced a rod bearing failure? 1000? 2000? That's a 1-3% failure rate. Every community has its bogey issue. That being said, I replaced mine when the motor was out. I don't want to be in that minority haha

[RE36TRO]

My PPI several months ago states "minor" metal shavings found in the oil filter. Long story short, changed the RB's and the shop suspected they were most likely the source of the shavings. I'm far from an expert, but these look nowhere near as bad as some that legitimately needed a change. Am I wrong?

2011 E92, 78k Miles.

[tsk94]

My own opinion: I think rod bearing fear is blown out of proportion, especially here on these forums. In the grand scheme of things the number of E9X M3's that have engine failures directly relating to rod bearings is quite low. If you're conscious about warming the car up before driving the car hard at all, a lot of issues could be avoided. Since most of our cars now have multiple owners beforehand, you really have no idea how they were treated before you bought it. You can be as careful as you want but the damage might be done.

Letting the car warm up to operating temp is especially critical when running OEM spec 10W-60. For cold climates or more daily use you could run a thinner oil, but for track use and in general I'd stick with 10W-60 (again, my opinion).

But some people on here make new-comers and other members think running stock bearing is a guaranteed time bomb, which just simply isn't true. Plenty of people here on the forums, and thousands of others owners still have and still will run stock bearing, drive the cars hard, track their cars and so on, without issue.

With that being said, I'm NOT saying to not get your rod bearing done. It's a very good preventative maintenance this to do, especially on higher mileage cars or cars with multiple previous owners to give you peace of mind. Before you commit to changing them right away, you could always do a few oil analysis reports to track wear. Just do more frequent oil changes than normal.

[pbonsalb]

The problem with that explanation (let your engine warm up and if there is a problem it’s the PO’s fault) is that one owner carefully driven low mileage cars have failed. It really is a lottery. I agree the odds are with you if you want to take the risk, but it’s a $10-20k repair bill if you win the lottery.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The problem with that explanation (let your engine warm up and if there is a problem it’s the PO’s fault) is that one owner carefully driven low mileage cars have failed. It really is a lottery. I agree the odds are with you if you want to take the risk, but it’s a $10-20k repair bill if you win the lottery.

This

I've owned my 2013 since brand new. It got the best break-in in human history, I did oil changes every 5k miles. I did not drive it in winter. It always warmed up before giving it lots of throttle. When I did rod bearings at 30k miles they looked worse than my E46M3 at 130k miles.

I recall an event in September where my student in an E92 M3 told me he thought the bearing thing was overrated and proceeded to blow his engine up that same weekend.

I've blown an engine (not due to rod bearings) and it is an incredible inconvenience. Besides the massive cost, you may be stranded far from home and you're down one car for months and months.

My student who blew an engine is still out of a car. September-May. Think about that for a moment...

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This

I've owned my 2013 since brand new. It got the best break-in in human history, I did oil changes every 5k miles. I did not drive it in winter. It always warmed up before giving it lots of throttle. When I did rod bearings at 30k miles they looked worse than my E46M3 at 130k miles.

I recall an event in September where my student in an E92 M3 told me he thought the bearing thing was overrated and proceeded to blow his engine up that same weekend.

I've blown an engine (not due to rod bearings) and it is an incredible inconvenience. Besides the massive cost, you may be stranded far from home and you're down one car for months and months.

My student who blew an engine is still out of a car. September-May. Think about that for a moment...

Would be cool if those that want to ignore the countless threads, mech literature, and the advice from the closest thing to S65 experts could just do it quietly.

[R-35]

If you plan on keeping the car for a long period of time (more than 3 years) then I think it's definitely worth spending a couple grand on rod bearings for the peace of mind...you can then truly enjoy the car without worrying....also when it's time to sell the car having the rod bearings changed will be a nice selling point. Get the motor mounts and spark plugs changed at the same time and it'll feel like a new car.

[redline9001]

Originally Posted by RE36TRO

My PPI several months ago states "minor" metal shavings found in the oil filter. Long story short, changed the RB's and the shop suspected they were most likely the source of the shavings. I'm far from an expert, but these look nowhere near as bad as some that legitimately needed a change. Am I wrong?

2011 E92, 78k Miles.

Your wrong... those RB are bad... the newer bearing don’t have the copper in them like the older ones, so they don’t have the colour contrast.

They are not imitate failure bad ... but you where well on the way.

[serranot]

I mean, yeah, the rod bearing issue/debate will never end. But it's $2500. It's life insurance. Life insurance is never worth it until you die, in which case you're not around to note how happy you are because you bought it. Same with RBs, at least seemingly. You will never prove you would have blown an engine, but if you replace them you will have peace of mind that you will likely not have a $10-20K bill in the future.

[beto3934]

I bought a used M3 E93 on September 2017, one owner, since then I driven the car 4K mikes. I bought an extended warranty with BMW of Richmond VA. 5 years 120K miles. I have changed the engine oil twice during this time. Spark plugs, and a few minor mods. I replaced the battery and when it es getting registered and coded I was told the thermostat was not opening. I replaced it myself and knowing I was going to remove a lots of parts there I ordered the TA from FCP because a lot of the forum members state TA are to failed. Unfortunately not my case. My used TA looks like new. However I already spent the money on them so I replaced them. I am planning to do now Tran and Diff fluids. My point is if you feel your car is not running well go ahead and do the repairs the car need, but don't listen to somebody whose situations are different but you think it is happening to you. Look what happened with the TA in my car. I did not listen to the car and I spent $1200 I could use in something else. All our cars have treated different.

[beto3934]

I forgot to mention car has 59K miles now

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by RE36TRO

My PPI several months ago states "minor" metal shavings found in the oil filter. Long story short, changed the RB's and the shop suspected they were most likely the source of the shavings. I'm far from an expert, but these look nowhere near as bad as some that legitimately needed a change. Am I wrong?

2011 E92, 78k Miles.

They’re not great. In a motor without known rod bearing issues, you can pull them apart at 300k miles and you wouldn’t be able to tell they were ever used. Yours were clearly having some contact with the crank, which ideally is something that should never happen.

They would have resulted in engine failure eventually. What’s harder to say is how long that would have taken.

Originally Posted by beto3934

I bought a used M3 E93 on September 2017, one owner, since then I driven the car 4K mikes. I bought an extended warranty with BMW of Richmond VA. 5 years 120K miles. I have changed the engine oil twice during this time. Spark plugs, and a few minor mods. I replaced the battery and when it es getting registered and coded I was told the thermostat was not opening. I replaced it myself and knowing I was going to remove a lots of parts there I ordered the TA from FCP because a lot of the forum members state TA are to failed. Unfortunately not my case. My used TA looks like new. However I already spent the money on them so I replaced them. I am planning to do now Tran and Diff fluids. My point is if you feel your car is not running well go ahead and do the repairs the car need, but don't listen to somebody whose situations are different but you think it is happening to you. Look what happened with the TA in my car. I did not listen to the car and I spent $1200 I could use in something else. All our cars have treated different.

The thing with rod bearings is by the time you have actual symptoms, you’re fucked.

[beto3934]

BTW, if someone is looking to replace TA, I have them for sale. If interested let me know and I text pictures of them

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by beto3934

I bought a used M3 E93 on September 2017, one owner, since then I driven the car 4K mikes. I bought an extended warranty with BMW of Richmond VA. 5 years 120K miles. I have changed the engine oil twice during this time. Spark plugs, and a few minor mods. I replaced the battery and when it es getting registered and coded I was told the thermostat was not opening. I replaced it myself and knowing I was going to remove a lots of parts there I ordered the TA from FCP because a lot of the forum members state TA are to failed. Unfortunately not my case. My used TA looks like new. However I already spent the money on them so I replaced them. I am planning to do now Tran and Diff fluids. My point is if you feel your car is not running well go ahead and do the repairs the car need, but don't listen to somebody whose situations are different but you think it is happening to you. Look what happened with the TA in my car. I did not listen to the car and I spent $1200 I could use in something else. All our cars have treated different.

It is not proper to conflate throttle actuators with rod bearings. Failed throttle actuators cost the same to replace as good throttle actuators. Bearings are not the same. Failed bearings will cost you much more than good bearings to replace. Furthermore, there is no way to check without inspecting. At that time, you might as well replace.

If you do not think there is a fundamental issue with QA/QC, then live in bliss and hope you do not "win" the lottery.

On the other hand, if you believe in statistics, your engine may have been built too tight and it is at risk of premature wear and failure. No amount of granny driving, maintenance, care or warmup will eliminate the issues that occur due to tight bearings.

If you pinion is that the data does not support the conclusion reached by the professional engine builders who produced the BE bearings, then I wish you luck and many happy miles. And I hope it does not end in tears.

Cheers,

[beto3934]

Oh no, I am not here to say I am right or wrong. That is why I bought the extended warranty knowing that is something happens to the engine due to RB I would be cover. Cheers as well

[pbonsalb]

When I bought in January 2011, I bought a CPO because I did not want to worry about an expensive repair. There was not as much discussion about rod bearings back then so my concern was not specific. I saw no reason to change the bearings until the warranty ran out in 2014. I did change them then.

Someone a few posts up suggested not worrying unless you planned to keep the car at least 3 years. I don’t understand that logic. These cars are 7-12 years old and there have been hundreds of failed motors and thousands of preventatively replaced bearings that have suffered seriously premature wear. How one reasons that these cars won’t have problems until they are 10-15 years old is beyond me. It’s like a lottery—not many people win but you can win at any age or mileage and it will cost you $10-20k. If you want to take the risk, that is fine, but to suggest there is no risk is to ignore the facts.

[Logitech]

Originally Posted by beto3934

Oh no, I am not here to say I am right or wrong. That is why I bought the extended warranty knowing that is something happens to the engine due to RB I would be cover. Cheers as well

Better take a very close look at that extended warranty. If your engine blows and you present them with a $15,000 bill lets see how quickly they'll find and out not to pay the claim. You're trusting that they are going to pay. What if they don't you're going to sue them. Good luck.

Cheers.

[bkfastwagon]

What are the risks involved with changing RB? I imagine it's a major procedure that most shops have little to no experience, including the dealerships.

Assuming the shop is experienced and competent, is the risk minimal? I am at 50K and thinking of getting it done soon.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

What are the risks involved with changing RB? I imagine it's a major procedure that most shops have little to no experience, including the dealerships.

Assuming the shop is experienced and competent, is the risk minimal? I am at 50K and thinking of getting it done soon.

The risks are more about the shop being careless than anything else. As long as they torque things properly, use the assembly lube where appropriate, make sure not to damage crank or bearing surfaces as they’re putting things back together, it should be fine (assuming your crank isn’t actually damaged yet).

I don’t know how much I trust your run of the mil shop to not take shortcuts.

[StripclubDJ]

Originally Posted by nkautz

Easy way to avoid rod bearing issues , stay away from 10w60 , use 0w40. Applies to S65 , s85 and any other modern production engine using 60wt oil on tight bearing clearances.

You need to leave .

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk2008

I've talked to two BMW factory trained tech still working for BMW that are saying that the particular VIN I am buying falls outside the "Open Campaign" that BMW had where they were replacing them under warranty.

technically this is true, because every single e9x m3 vin falls outside of this open campaign. lol


there is no campaign.

[beto3934]

Originally Posted by Logitech

Better take a very close look at that extended warranty. If your engine blows and you present them with a $15,000 bill lets see how quickly they'll find and out not to pay the claim. You're trusting that they are going to pay. What if they don't you're going to sue them. Good luck.

Cheers.

Well, looks like you want to pick an argument no matter what the responses are. You are now questioning my extended warranty without even know what I got. If I would explain or give details about it midline you are going to reply why the color of my car etc. CHEERS and end of the story mate. Good luck to you and stay healthy