Will ess vt2-625 injectors work for for 650?

[azndrunk74]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Do you know if a new tune is necessary to run the 650 boost level (94mm) if injectors are not changed? I recall reading somewhere that there other differences in the 650 tune besides just injectors.

it wasn't necessary when i had the 625 tune with the 94mm pulley. i have the 650 tune now but honestly can't tell the difference. it's fast either way

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by azndrunk74

it wasn't necessary when i had the 625 tune with the 94mm pulley. i have the 650 tune now but honestly can't tell the difference. it's fast either way

ESS provided the 650 tune for you without the 7-rib belt system? If so, then that answers that...

I wouldn't expect there to be any difference in how it feels. I think the difference would be in the safety margins that are set. Personally I would be weary running 650 boost levels with a 625 tune for this reason. The extra 20 or 30hp isn't worth the risk to me when the car is already plenty fast.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

You know exactly what history I am referring to and even commented on it in the thread I linked. We aren't allowed to talk about it on this forum without having posts magically disappear so I'll leave it at that. I also specifically pointed out that I don't think there is any real danger to using a non-ESS tune. It's just a matter of preference and principal. Anybody who is capable of spending a few minutes on Google rather than an echo-chamber can decide for themselves.

I honestly really don't which is why I said what I did. My only history with ess is having ass pain dealing with aj the first time when I had my black e90. I ended up getting a TTFS tune. This go round, bpm just had the best customer service so I went with them.



I don't know enough about meth to comment on this, but nobody said anything to counter Longboarder's assertion in that thread: "The intercooled systems cannot rely on water/meth to cool IATs because the heat exchanger is in the manifold, which blocks the meth flow (heats the post-meth intake right back up if the water in the heat exchanger is hot)."

The problem is meth doesn't actually cool anything. Meth give octane. You can mix meth with water for a 50/50 mix which will help with AIT but if you are doing that prior to the heat exchanger the temp just goes back up. But when you run meth for octane which mixed with 93 is close to 110 you can run more timing with out seeing knock. Our cars pull timing due to knock from heat. I'm in south florida it gets blistering hot down here so running meth will allow me to maintain timing targets


I have read other people ask them for a 650 tune without the 7-rib belt system and get turned down. That is all I have to go off of until they reply to my email.

The 650kit tune pulls off timing after 7500 rpm people the fuel system is maxed out at that point. If you look at most Dyno graphs they all go some what lean at the end because of this. So ess drops timing up top to prevent detonation.
But again Ess is the only place you can get a 94mm pulley from it's custom order they do, vortech does not make a 94mm pulley.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

I honestly really don't which is why I said what I did. My only history with ess is having ass pain dealing with aj the first time when I had my black e90. I ended up getting a TTFS tune. This go round, bpm just had the best customer service so I went with them.

If you don't know, then what were you commenting on when you said this in the other thread?

Originally Posted by Properstyle

Google shows someone's opinonated speculation with in history, every single company in this game has bad reviews at some point. Everyone of them. Too much google can hurt progress.

Was that just a broad sentiment rather than a reference to a tuner with a questionable history behind them - specifically in regards to supercharger tuning?

Originally Posted by Properstyle

The 650kit tune pulls off timing after 7500 rpm people the fuel system is maxed out at that point. If you look at most Dyno graphs they all go some what lean at the end because of this. So ess drops timing up top to prevent detonation.
But again Ess is the only place you can get a 94mm pulley from it's custom order they do, vortech does not make a 94mm pulley.

And this is why I wouldn't just slap on a 94mm pulley and call it a day, regardless of injectors a tune is necessary to play it safe IMO. I don't know why ESS doesn't advertise/sell a 6-rib 650 kit with the 94mm pulley if they stock the pulleys anyway. Ever since Roman left, their presence on the forums is basically non-existant so I don't think anyone will answer that for us.

[azndrunk74]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

ESS provided the 650 tune for you without the 7-rib belt system? If so, then that answers that...

I wouldn't expect there to be any difference in how it feels. I think the difference would be in the safety margins that are set. Personally I would be weary running 650 boost levels with a 625 tune for this reason. The extra 20 or 30hp isn't worth the risk to me when the car is already plenty fast.

Originally Posted by Properstyle

The 650kit tune pulls off timing after 7500 rpm people the fuel system is maxed out at that point. If you look at most Dyno graphs they all go some what lean at the end because of this. So ess drops timing up top to prevent detonation.
But again Ess is the only place you can get a 94mm pulley from it's custom order they do, vortech does not make a 94mm pulley.

agreed that there will be a difference in the timing table with the 650 tune for safety reasons. better safe than sorry.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

^The blue injectors are larger than the black?

I think they're about the same. I found that the black injectors (p/n 0280158124) run 3 bar/ 390cc, 4 bar/ 438cc.

Source: http://www.finjector.com/verkkokaupp...t/view/2110/87

Green are 440cc and blue are 410cc at 3 bar IIRC.

[Patrón]

I have my ess 94mm pulley for sale.

I paid $250for the damn thing.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If you don't know, then what were you commenting on when you said this in the other thread?

Guy I ask what you are talking about. I don’t sit around on the computer. Making a log of shit from every thread.

Was that just a broad sentiment rather than a reference to a tuner with a questionable history behind them - specifically in regards to supercharger tuning?

Statement was just as it states, that everything single company when yougogoe then has a issue in the past.. spending all that time searching for now sense which 90 percent of the time is never proven to be true is pointless and hurts progress.

And this is why I wouldn't just slap on a 94mm pulley and call it a day, regardless of injectors a tune is necessary to play it safe IMO. I don't know why ESS doesn't advertise/sell a 6-rib 650 kit with the 94mm pulley if they stock the pulleys anyway. Ever since AJ left, their presence on the forums is basically non-existant so I don't think anyone will answer that for us.

No one said to not change the tune. How ever bpm ess, vf, gintani, rk tunes -“@ make a tune to account for the increase in boost. but if you choose not to change tunes running meth would make up for it as the octane would allow for hitting the increases timing targets.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

Guy I ask what you are talking about. I don’t sit around on the computer. Making a log of shit from every thread.

Statement was just as it states, that everything single company when yougogoe then has a issue in the past.. spending all that time searching for now sense which 90 percent of the time is never proven to be true is pointless and hurts progress.

If you don't care to read both the good and bad reviews before coming to a conclusion on who should tune your $15k engine+$8k supercharger system then that's your prerogative. Sorry I assumed you knew what you were talking about when you made the comment in the other thread.

Originally Posted by Properstyle

No one said to not change the tune. How ever bpm ess, vf, gintani, rk tunes -“@ make a tune to account for the increase in boost. but if you choose not to change tunes running meth would make up for it as the octane would allow for hitting the increases timing targets.

Agreed - no one in this thread said not to change the tune. However, here is AJ@ESS's reply to my email asking about software and injectors for the 94mm pulley:

The injectors and software will support it, the question is strength of the engine and fuel quality. If you have very good fuel of at least 93AKI it may be fine, but you should not do this unless you are prepared to replace the engine if it goes catastrophic.

[ss540i]

Originally Posted by Patrón

I have my ess 94mm pulley for sale.

I paid $250for the damn thing.

Pm’ed

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Patrón

at the time i upgraded my kit to a 625, ESS sold me the upgrade with the bosch blue injectors. i know some of the 650 kits came with the blue injectors at one time, like stated above the injector colors changed during the evolution of the kit. the important factor is:

the tuner has to know what color and cc the injectors are, then tune from there. contact Benvo/BPM and he'll set you straight with questions and answers and the correct tune.

i've not come across a better customer service company in the M community. the builder of the system, not so much.

Best customer service in the industry? I compared his tune on one of my cars to the tune from a different company on my other car and he hounded me with PM's telling me not to compare his tune to other tuners. First of all these are my cars and I will post whatever I choose to post about my cars and whatever mods are on them. And the crazy thing is that I clearly stated that both tunes were awesome and that there was no loser, either tune would be great and I recommend them both. I guess he thought I would roll over and obey his command. I'm glad some of you have gotten great customer service from him, all I have gotten are some wacky PM's.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Best customer service in the industry? I compared his tune on one of my cars to the tune from a different company on my other car and he hounded me with PM's telling me not to compare his tune to other tuners. First of all these are my cars and I will post whatever I choose to post about my cars and whatever mods are on them. And the crazy thing is that I clearly stated that both tunes were awesome and that there was no loser, either tune would be great and I recommend them both. I guess he thought I would roll over and obey his command. I'm glad some of you have gotten great customer service from him, all I have gotten are some wacky PM's.

Don't disrupt the circle-jerk.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Best customer service in the industry? I compared his tune on one of my cars to the tune from a different company on my other car and he hounded me with PM's telling me not to compare his tune to other tuners. First of all these are my cars and I will post whatever I choose to post about my cars and whatever mods are on them. And the crazy thing is that I clearly stated that both tunes were awesome and that there was no loser, either tune would be great and I recommend them both. I guess he thought I would roll over and obey his command. I'm glad some of you have gotten great customer service from him, all I have gotten are some wacky PM's.

It's incredible that people will say person X is great for tunes because they have good customer support.

I guess these are the same people interested in buying bridges for example from the village idiot but who replies to emails quickly.
Apparently we live in a world where it's ok if someone has no clue what they're talking about as long as as they answer emails and give good 'support'.

And apparently we live in a world where people cannot google tuner's names and come to a conclusion for themselves.

Earlier someone said 'everyone has some bad experiences'. Bad experiences sure. Miscommunication sure. But that it is well documented that some 'tuners' are not 'tuners' at all and are running stolen software from others and yet forum members choose to put their head in the sand and keep pushing that product is depressing.

I would never run a tune from someone other than the kit manufacturer. Even further, I would of course never run a tune from someone who is not a tuner in the first place.

In this forum we have one guy who was a salesman who has now become a 'tuner'. I really want to know what selling tunes has to do with creating them. Anyone care to share?

We also have another dude who 5 years ago was selling light kits. Light kits!! And now he has also 'become' a tuner. And we have a 30 page thread in the forum of people buying the non-tuner's tune!

Just the other day another non tuner was being discussed and people defending him said that he 'built a lot of engines'. What the hell does being a good engine builder have to do with tuning engine software?

Soon at a career fair we will hear stories about:
Step 1: I sell yogurt
Step 2: now I'm a food scientist!!

Step 1: I'm an astronaut
Step 2: now I'm a rocket engineer!!!

Step 1: I work with computers all day
Step 2: now I design microprocessors!!!

Step 1: I sell military hardware
Step 2: from all that time being close to Engineering, I'm now chief scientist at Raytheon!




My God. Seriously people. I wish I could post screenshots of how many times certain people have been proven to be liars, thiefs and idiots but I would get hit by the ever-present ban stick.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by ss540i

Pm’ed

replied to your pm, thanks.

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Best customer service in the industry? I compared his tune on one of my cars to the tune from a different company on my other car and he hounded me with PM's telling me not to compare his tune to other tuners. First of all these are my cars and I will post whatever I choose to post about my cars and whatever mods are on them. And the crazy thing is that I clearly stated that both tunes were awesome and that there was no loser, either tune would be great and I recommend them both. I guess he thought I would roll over and obey his command. I'm glad some of you have gotten great customer service from him, all I have gotten are some wacky PM's.

i don't see any other vendor contributing to 'error codes' or other questions in the forum. he has solved to problems for me via PMs. and i've never bought anything from the guy. I know a few guys that went with other tunes only to have benvo fix the problem.

I never said he was the best tuner, besides, how do you measure that?

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Patrón

replied to your pm, thanks.

i don't see any other vendor contributing to 'error codes' or other questions in the forum. he has solved to problems for me via PMs. and i've never bought anything from the guy. I know a few guys that went with other tunes only to have benvo fix the problem.

I never said he was the best tuner, besides, how do you measure that?

I'm not questioning his ability or your interactions with him. I'm calling into question his behavior which has been well documented in this forum, other forums and his PM's directly to me. I think he's an excellent tuner regardless of comments from others and give a thumbs up when others ask me if they should buy his tune based on how my car performs. I just think he lacks some communication skills. I probably should not have highlighted your post and brought your comment into my own thoughts especially when I have nothing to do with nor am I able to add in the discussion of super chargers, injectors and tuning. So my apologies Patrón for focusing in on your comments and experience with said tuner.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Patrón

I never said he was the best tuner, besides, how do you measure that?

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I think he's an excellent tuner regardless of comments from others and give a thumbs up when others ask me if they should buy his tune based on how my car performs.

Well for starters, can we all agree an excellent "tuner" should know what the minimum timing map is and how it works?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Well for starters, can we all agree an excellent "tuner" should know what the minimum timing map is and how it works?

Huh? Timing map? What the hell is that?

Are you saying tuners should not call out other tuners about 'unsafe' timing maps while referencing something that isn't even a timing map to begin with?

Do you mean that someone should know what they're talking about?

You're talking crazy man.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If you don't care to read both the good and bad reviews before coming to a conclusion on who should tune your $15k engine+$8k supercharger system then that's your prerogative. Sorry I assumed you knew what you were talking about when you made the comment in the other thread.

There is a difference between reviews and the same circular nonsense. but for instance l I don't care about things that happen 5-6 years ago if they aren't happening now. I have better things to do then log every single thing any one has done as again it hurts progress. I don't tune bmws but I do build other cars and tune my own car that is on a standalone that I use for drag events There are butt so many ways to skin the same damn cat.

Agreed - no one in this thread said not to change the tune. However, here is AJ@ESS's reply to my email asking about software and injectors for the 94mm pulley:

That same rely is what you are signing away when you run a 650kit. Or did you not realize that? I'm sorry I assumed someone who is commenting on running a said pulley would realize you are running the same boost as the 650kit which can result in failure of your 13k motor. a 650kit maxes out your fuel system before you are even at the redline. So again with all this research you are doing you are missing the main items that actually matter.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Huh? Timing map? What the hell is that?

Are you saying tuners should not call out other tuners about 'unsafe' timing maps while referencing something that isn't even a timing map to begin with?

Do you mean that someone should know what they're talking about?

You're talking crazy man.

The problem with this is, people do things different than others. Gintani tunes aggressive, ess has an issue with gintani, vise versa. (ess will not tune for injectors larger then 390cc) now why is it a tuner would restrict him or her self to such a small injector for the load to then be placed on the fuel pump which is already maxed out? Gintani will tune any injector you have in your car and they are generally all close to 1000cc. you are saying one is a tuner one is not but yet no ess tuned car has ever received a revision to change the tune for the car. They are all canned files, if your car does something different then the given file it is said the problem is the car. not the fact that everyones motor is in fact different and all generally will have different results with the same input


With other motors this also happens. a LSX is a great example some tuners lean on timing with less boost to make the same power as those that rely on boost but use less timing. At the end of the day this turns in to the same nonsense that happens with n54 groups. The same ones that loose their shit over a tuner using the same base map and then improving it making better number than the original owner who created it. They turn around and call it a stolen tune while the person who they claimed stole it sat on the dyno for hours making adjustments to the cars and created a better product in the end.

I have not met a single tuner that didn't start off doing something else. generally most are people who get tired of having to wait on others to do things for them. Some of those jump starter tuners you slash and bash are someone the ones willing to put the most time in to make sure their stuff its right. Why? because they are already starting behind the curve and must prove them selves. Where do you think gintani started from? where do you thing tuning tech (TTFS) started from? double d tuning. Who used to be the premiere tuner to titan motor sports. all started from the examples you gave. but according to you everyone should stay in their place. They should never change and improve.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Well for starters, can we all agree an excellent "tuner" should know what the minimum timing map is and how it works?

Can you speak to that? I mean if you are judging it and calling it a root of measurement you your self should have no problem describing and articulating what the minimum timing map should look like.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

I have not met a single tuner that didn't start off doing something else. generally most are people who get tired of having to wait on others to do things for them. Some of those jump starter tuners you slash and bash are someone the ones willing to put the most time in to make sure their stuff its right. Why? because they are already starting behind the curve and must prove them selves. Where do you think gintani started from? where do you thing tuning tech (TTFS) started from? double d tuning. Who used to be the premiere tuner to titan motor sports. all started from the examples you gave. but according to you everyone should stay in their place. They should never change and improve.

Properstyle

One of those 'jump start' tuners (not mentioned in your post) has been tuning on this board for years and it wasn't even 6 months ago when they opened a post bashing a nameless tuner for doing dangerous things referencing a screenshot and it turned out that the screenshot was talking about something completely different and made the 'jump start' tuner look like an idiot. The entire thread was then removed.

I believe you know who I'm talking about.
There are screenshots in the interwebs of that laughable ordeal. You know it, I know it. I can't post them as I'd be banned... but that doesn't mean they're not out there.

About ESS/Gintani/whatever, I think ESS results are by a LONG shot the best on the forum. They have Stage 3 cars which *actually operate* unlike the rest of the 'tuners'. Anyone who has been reading the forum for years is extremely clear on that, or should be.
Meanwhile plenty of wannabe tuners have come and gone, many fanboys -which I hope are receiving free stuff in exchange for their ridiculous support- have also come and gone and meanwhile the airstrip events all show ESS superiority. With canned tunes.


No amount of 'self improvement' is ever going to make me cross a bridge designed by a sales guy, or have heart surgery by the guy who designed the light bulbs in the operating room. Ever.

'Enthusiasm is a poor substitute for expertise'

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Properstyle

One of those 'jump start' tuners (not mentioned in your post) has been tuning on this board for years and it wasn't even 6 months ago when they opened a post bashing a nameless tuner for doing dangerous things referencing a screenshot and it turned out that the screenshot was talking about something completely different and made the 'jump start' tuner look like an idiot. The entire thread was then removed.

I believe you know who I'm talking about.
There are screenshots in the interwebs of that laughable ordeal. You know it, I know it. I can't post them as I'd be banned... but that doesn't mean they're not out there.

About ESS/Gintani/whatever, I think ESS results are by a LONG shot the best on the forum. They have Stage 3 cars which *actually operate* unlike the rest of the 'tuners'. Anyone who has been reading the forum for years is extremely clear on that, or should be.
Meanwhile plenty of wannabe tuners have come and gone, many fanboys -which I hope are receiving free stuff in exchange for their ridiculous support- have also come and gone and meanwhile the airstrip events all show ESS superiority. With canned tunes.


No amount of 'self improvement' is ever going to make me cross a bridge designed by a sales guy, or have heart surgery by the guy who designed the light bulbs in the operating room. Ever.

'Enthusiasm is a poor substitute for expertise'

the stage three car that blew up? which is why it's not offered by ESS any longer and hasn't been for some time now? the reason you see so many ESS kits is dude to the fact it is the cheapest kit to get and assembly wise it is also the simplest. I will vote for ESS products for it's simplicity over all that i wont dispute.

VF produces the same results but is a more complicated ordeal. but again those breaking records are all out side of the canned tuned being sent. any one that has owned any German vehicle know the canned tunes are conservative and are not vehicles specific just a fact. The only person here I see offering a tune that I could not support buying from is alpine as anyone that can offer a all motor tune but not a supercharged tune is due to the fact they never tuned any car they simply received a file they are selling at a lower cost. nothing against them just simple fact. But those like RKtunes. TTFS, EPICMotorsports (an actual race team), rms, are all tuners that do not offer a blower kit them selves but are tuners who can tune any kit brought to them. you can choose to stay with ess its not wrong to do but it would be foolish to think thats is the only one making a correct tune for the setup.