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06-10-2019, 12:51 PM | #23 |
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No its not. Thanks for asking. Another 65.700 E9X's still drives fine without problem. RB's fails on even ford expeditions and other vehicles so there is of course chance but less than you could imagine.
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06-10-2019, 01:18 PM | #24 |
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We don’t know how many of those 65.700 failed prematurely. Check out bearing change example thread where most bearings come out with LOTS of wear and many of them are on their final layer....you can’t argue with proven picture evidence
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06-10-2019, 01:26 PM | #25 |
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Which they say same thing for 50K, 60K, 80K, 100K, 130K miles vehicle. Between first and last number there is another 80K miles or 6-8 years of driving. Check other post here that guy just purchased a car w/170K miles. If you ask me RB,s of course has a wear on that car just like we say same thing for 50K miles car and most of you guys thinks it will fail very soon.
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06-10-2019, 01:35 PM | #26 | |
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OP can get a new engine if he follows BE's warranty procedure |
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06-10-2019, 01:47 PM | #27 | ||
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I actually agree that the probability of an actual failure per se -- i.e. spinning a bearing, chewing the crank, etc. -- doesn't seem too high. Taking that "close to 200 members" number at face value (I haven't counted and don't care to), the real number would have to be >3x that to equal 1% of all E9x M3s sold. I also get the impression that most people overestimate the failure rate because they conflate excess wear with failure. However, given the time and expense involved in rebuilding one of these engines, it still make sense to assume your rod bearings will wear excessively, and that you should change them preventatively to reduce the risk of a failure. So really, you're both right. Whaddya say we get back to speculating wildly about what's wrong with OP's engine? |
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06-10-2019, 02:51 PM | #29 | |
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For every hypervigilant forum user, there is a some average joe out there who has driven his M3 for 100k miles with a 'fix it when it breaks' attitude on stock bearings, I bet a quarter or more M3 owners don't even know about the issue. Not to say that you shouldn't replace them, but threads like this go to show that issues exist outside of the RBs. Interested to see the condition of the mains. |
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06-10-2019, 03:08 PM | #30 |
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My hypothesis:
RBs are oiled through holes in the crank, and the crank is oiled from holes in the main bearings. The main bearings have a groove and a hole, where oil is pumped in, into the crank, where it comes out at the RBs. Main bearing spun in a way that blocked the oil feed, and cause starvation and seizing. |
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06-10-2019, 03:13 PM | #31 | |
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The car uses fractured rods. Installing them incorrectly is much easier than you'd think and guarantees a failure. A track buddy was talking about rebuilding his Pcar engine and did this, the engine blew 5k later. Not properly seating the new rod bearing. There is a little groove, if not seated well kaboom If you used stock bolts it is also possible the install seemed too much of a PITA and the shop ignored the correct procedure All this, of course, assumes this is actually a rod bearing failure. It could be a mains failure that then took out the rod. As always, one should be very careful when selecting who will install their bearings. I'd extend this to general work. I totally understand people driving hundreds of miles to see deansbimmer for example
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06-10-2019, 03:51 PM | #32 | |
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Found this quote here: "In simple terms, bearing crush is what holds the bearing in place. Think of it as putting 10 pounds of something into a five-pound bag. The tang or locator tab on the shell that fits the saddle is only for locating the bearing during assembly." This article discusses bearing failure modes in great detail. Number 17, Oil Starvation, is consistent with the typical rod bearings being removed from S65s. Bearings spin when the hydrodynamic bearing stops functioning properly and metal-on-metal friction occurs which "spins" the bearing shells in the rod big end. This ruins the rod and crank, and if the rod breaks, the block as well. SIGNIFICANT force is needed for this to happen. That force will never occur if the bearing is operating properly. Let me know if I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say.
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06-10-2019, 04:53 PM | #33 | |
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Thought it was hard to install fractured rods the hard way lol. When I changed my bearings with my mech it was pretty obvious how a cracked rod goes back together. Guess there's no shortage of stupid out there. I got my money on mains failure that took the rod bearings out as collateral. |
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06-10-2019, 05:04 PM | #34 | |
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And I think you are likely correct. Main #1 possibly failed and the heat pooched #1 and #5 rod bearings as they are starved of oil and way hotter than the other rods. This sucks ass for the OP. Wonder if we could start a go-fund-me for S65 owners The community could "self insure" against blown engines due to main failures. Everyone could kick into the kitty and if their mains take out their engine, boom, the kitty helps them out!! Ah, to dream.
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06-10-2019, 05:08 PM | #35 | |
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06-10-2019, 10:30 PM | #36 | ||
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While we're talking about myths, here's two other myths to dispel.
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Last but not least: there was one forum user on here a few years ago. He was one of the most vocal disbelievers in the rod bearing clearance issue. He mocked everybody who changed their bearings (sound familiar in this thread?). The guy's engine threw a rod out the side, and he quietly disappeared -- and I've never seen him post ever again. |
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06-11-2019, 08:56 AM | #38 | |
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06-11-2019, 10:12 AM | #39 | |
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Source article for the quote above about 10lbs in a 5lb bag: https://www.enginebuildermag.com/200...your-bearings/ |
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06-11-2019, 11:11 AM | #40 | |
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I would think that the crush force and hatching on the rod big end bore would still hold the shell even if there was a bit of oil on the bearing back. It would be nice if one of the professional engine builders weighed in on this. Cheers,
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06-11-2019, 11:58 AM | #41 | |
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06-11-2019, 12:00 PM | #42 |
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A few people asked and it is a great question - who did the install?
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06-11-2019, 12:10 PM | #43 | |
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Edit. The shop claimed all the bolts were torqued to spec, and was confirmed when they dropped the pan. |
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06-11-2019, 02:52 PM | #44 |
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Don't mean to derail the thread....But a shop's image is only as good as the representative representing it. Evolve enjoys a fantastic reputation but like almost every other shop out there, the founder who built that reputation based on knowledge and experience usually isn't the one doing the labor once they're big enough to enjoy such a reputation. The tech on that video is simply incorrect. Unfortunately, the majority of RB's being replaced by well known RB shops, are being replaced by techs who really don't understand what's going on. Furthermore, most of the videos being pushed around are sourced from these types of mechanics. Of course there are some exceptions but the truly knowledgeable sources are usually too busy to make videos.
Example 1: A customer who just had his bearings done by a much larger, more well known, highly reputable shop brought me his M3 because within 200 miles the rod was knocking. Upon disassembly I found the #1 bearing shells were installed backwards (locating tang installed opposite of notch). The tech clearly made a noob mistake and it cost our customer his engine. Example 2: A highly reputed competing shop in my area purchased BE bearings from us since we're one of BE's vendors. Their tech arrived to pick up the parts while we had two RB services in process, and was amazed that we actually remove the subframes for the service. We were shocked. There's no way to have the same level of accuracy, attention to detail, and cleanliness without removing the subframe. If you disagree, we have photos from the shop from Example 1 mid-service with the subframe dangling, while the tech was busy mis-installing a bearing shell and ruining the engine. In the case of the OP, I would bet that this is a main bearing failure. |
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