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05-07-2009, 08:54 PM | #23 | |
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05-08-2009, 07:04 AM | #24 |
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I just remembered that back in the 80's we used to use a water spray to help our brakes out on our 5.0L Mustangs.The brakes were real crap on those cars and we used to take the windsheild washer pump & run hoses to spray on the rotors. and used the brake lights to activate the pump.We would use old carb jets to contol the volume of spray.It was a stopgap measure but it made enough of a difference that we could run about 4 or 5 hot laps during Solo 1 where we could only run 1 before.Trans-Am cars of the 80's used to run with about a 20 gallon water tank for brake cooling.
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05-08-2009, 07:11 AM | #25 |
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Wow, had no idea that was done. How did they/you know when to spray the water exactly? Was there was kind of temp reading?
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05-08-2009, 07:36 AM | #26 |
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We guessed that if we sprayed into the inboard central area of the hub that it would go out the vanes and cool the complete braking surface.There was an awful lot of trail & error and quite a few cracked rotors but eventually it worked well enough to do 4 laps at 10/10ths.Temp readings?It went from too hot to being able to work I am pretty sure that I have a picture at home with steam coming out of the front wheels at Shannonville.I will try to find that and post it up.The big issue is having a large enough tank to do a complete session.
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05-08-2009, 07:44 AM | #27 | |
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05-08-2009, 07:57 AM | #28 |
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The pump was activated by the brake light switch,so if the brake lights were on the pump was working and water was being sprayed.We did not have access to I/R heat probes at that time so it was a guess at best.We tried using the temp paints that the pro teams used but the highest temp paint burned offmelted caliper seals was the norm for us and so was the piston pushed through the backing plate.
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05-08-2009, 08:09 AM | #29 |
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I remember hearing something about a "cooling system" like that. Very entertaining but I guess if it's functional, who cares?
I was at Shannonville a few years ago. It was the day after a hurricane had tracked up the entire east coast and dumped a few inches of rain. We were delayed in getting the day started because they were trying to drain some puddles. They got most of the track clear but there was one place where there was a running stream going across the track all day. All of the Canadians were braking before the water and going slow through it. My friend and I were the only ones "crazy" enough to go full blast through the water and get on the brakes afterward. Only once did it bite me in the *ss where I got on the brakes a bit too soon in the water. Which brings me to it being odd that the water didn't just lubricate the rotor/pad? I guess the water instantly vaporized and caused cooling that way? |
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05-08-2009, 08:18 AM | #30 | |
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The water instantly vapourized one the brakes were warmed up and the water was directed on the internal veins not the friction surfaces. |
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05-08-2009, 08:20 AM | #31 | |
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05-08-2009, 10:30 AM | #32 | |
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Good job swapping the fluid out. You will be totally fine on stock gear, especially if you have no prior experience. All the race pads and compounds do is let you go faster. It is not safer and actually with r compounds that dont make noise, its less safe because there is no warning of grip loss, they just let go! You need to drive wihtin the limits of the car, and if your limit on stock gear is 10 seconds slower, who the hell cares!! You're still having fun, right? Its not a race, its a way to safely experience your car near the limit. Work on: 1. Being smooth 2. keeping your eyes open all around you, look far ahead 3. learning the line (watch Lucid video a LOT, he has good lines - look where he is turning in, where he is on track entering a turn, how smooth his inputs are..). Don't worry too much about pre-learning track camber and elevation - most of it is obvious when you're on track, and there are very few off-camber corners, and even those are not bad. You instructor will guide you so trust him, especially if he has m3 experience - most clubs try to match up driver's car type with students. Let him drive your car, you'll be scared to do so, but its fine. Watch where he's turning in, where he is braking - use the braking signs on the side for reference. Start at the first braking sign, then move in as you feel comfortable. MDM etc - Initially, leave it all on, use sporty on throttle and suspension (pre-setup M mode for this so you dont have to hit a bunch of buttons in line). Use MDM later in the day or next day when you know the track more. I wouldn't turn it all off your first time out, especially on a fast track like WGI. You are about to experience one of the most fun things you'll ever do. Have fun, relax and enjoy it safely. Watkins Glen is an AWESOME racetrack. PS - bring and drink LOTS of water. Force feed it, you wont realize it but you can get dehydrated quickly. |
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05-08-2009, 11:19 AM | #33 |
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This answers the question I asked in the other thread about using endurance type pads on our heavy cars. I went through this process on my last car until I found the right pad. A costly exercise but it really made me understand the importance of using the right pad for the application. As soon as you move out of the heat range of a pad, it will either fade, wear rapidly, or even crumble like you described. I'm sure any top tier race pad will fare better. And ducting will certainly help
Did your rotors get any surface cracking? If not, you've probably got a lot more thermal capacity left to take advantage of a hotter pad |
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05-08-2009, 11:40 AM | #34 | |
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VERY important. Even instructing I usually get out of the car and go right for the water. Even if it's not hot, I force the water. I always find that it works best if I'm needing to go use the restroom a LOT. That means I'm drinking enough |
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05-08-2009, 11:56 AM | #35 |
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Sorry, I just now got a chance to look at the video.
Take this with a grain of salt as it's coming from a driver of a momentum car. These are merely suggestions and I always tell people to try it both ways and see which way you prefer. At least if you TRY my way and decide that you like your way better, you've given it a shot and tried something new! Turn 5 after the bus stop it seems like you're not using all of the track to the left there. One lap it seemed worse than the one prior (around 5:30 is the one I'm saying is worse than prior). On that lap, it seemed like you only came out to about halfway across the track and then started diving back in for turn 5. Let the car track out to the left and then stay out there a bit. Even for people that I saw getting out there and using that part of the track, they were still turning in too early. There is a point where you can see a traffic light. If you look for that light, there's a point where it'll intersect with a light pole behind it. THAT is where I was having people turn in. On the GTR last October the guy picked up another 5 or so MPH going into the laces when I had him do that |
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05-08-2009, 11:57 AM | #36 |
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Lucid, I am wondering this too. On my z06, my NAPA rotors would last two to three events and the (much more expensive) OEM rotors would last 4-5. I am curious how the oem M3 rotors faired. Do you see any spidering yet?
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05-08-2009, 12:05 PM | #37 | |
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05-08-2009, 02:14 PM | #38 |
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Yup, that's the one I ran. It was just such a disapointment in comparison to the big track. Imagine driving 10 hours or so to find out you're not doing the big track! To make matters worse it was a PCA event and they had cup cars and everything. Some incredible Porsches over on the big track that day.
Also part of the problem with the DDT was that the knucklehead running the event decided that the two beginner groups would run with the "infield" portions and the more advanced group would run without them. My friend and I trailered only one car and we were running all sessions. That was confusing enough to the point where one would need to ride to "navigate" If that wasn't bad enough, in the afternoon they opened up the outer loop to the beginners who were confused as to which part of the track they should be using. It got downright dangerous between trying to determine which group we were out in and whether or not to take the inner loops. Add the confusion of everyone else there and there were quite a few close calls. Very unsafe. The same guy organized a track day at the big track and asked if we'd come instruct last minute and I declined just based on safety alone. That said, it definitely seems like a fun track if you live within a 2 hour drive or so but for that long of a drive, I'd want to do the big track! |
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05-08-2009, 02:29 PM | #39 | |
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05-08-2009, 03:21 PM | #40 | |
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Pocono Limerock Watkins Glen Summit Point NJMP Monticello Autobahn near Chicago Bondurant (I think? In vegas) Little Taledega in Alabama Motorsports Ranch in Texas Streets of Willow several times Shannonville Mosport DDT There are still several I'd love to check out including the big track at Mosport. I'd love to have checked out Bridgehampton. Mt Tremblant sounds nice but expensive (now). Laguna, Road America, Road Atlanta, what's the newish one in Utah? I think that's it for now |
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05-08-2009, 03:23 PM | #41 | |
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05-08-2009, 03:29 PM | #42 |
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No cracks, but they are badly scored by the HT10s.
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05-09-2009, 01:46 PM | #43 |
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05-09-2009, 02:36 PM | #44 | |
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