Time to move on to something else....2016 Cayman GTS

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

To each his own I suppose. I love the way the 911 squats down hard under acceleration how you can you feel it when it starts to give out. It's very predicable, but still feels wild, fast and tight.

I think it would be easier to get a fast time out of the Cayman GTS if that's your goal, but the 911S is probably going to be faster at the end of the day once you master it.

The extra power is noticeable and addictive.

911 all the way. they look better and are faster.

[MDREDev]

Originally Posted by Ezio

911 all the way. they look better and are faster.

Looks are subjective. I personally think the 981 looks better. Others may feel differently and that isn't right or wrong...just personal preference. Faster? What is faster than what? A 981 GTS or GT4 will be faster than some 991's.......and on top of that really cares? Drive what feels better to you. If you are buying a 981 or 991 you are not buying it for having the fastest car out there from point A to point B. I would venture to say that 95% of the drivers out there would be faster in a 981 vs 991 due to the driving dynamics. But that shit doesn't matter to me because 350-400 HP is more than sufficient for what I am looking to do.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

To each his own I suppose. I love the way the 911 squats down hard under acceleration how you can you feel it when it starts to give out. It's very predicable, but still feels wild, fast and tight.

I think it would be easier to get a fast time out of the Cayman GTS if that's your goal, but the 911S is probably going to be faster at the end of the day once you master it.

The extra power is noticeable and addictive.

As someone who deliberately chose a Cayman GTS over a 991, I did it for several reasons.

1. The mid engine dynamics are also something that is noticeable when driving the car.

2. The styling, although this is always subjective. As I have said, there are actually people on this planet who don't vomit when they see a GTR.

3. Value. Different from cost. My Cayman was $96k and was relatively loaded up. The 911, comparably equipped, was significantly more, and to me, not worth it. Especially since I like the Cayman's styling so much more.

4. Finally, no matter how fast a car you drive, you will utlimately get used to the sensations of speed it produces. This is a physiologic adaptation that occurs in your brain and body. My tuned S6 is blistering fast, but my previous e92 as well my new Cayman have a much more engaging and precsion feel. I will concede one thing, however. If my daily driver was a Honda Accord or something like that, I may have opted for a 911 simply because it has more grunt. However my S6 is my DD, and can get me to 60 in a just a little over 3 seconds when I am in the mood for that sort of thing, so my priorities for my play toy were different.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Ezio

911 all the way. they look better and are faster.

Faster....definitely. Although it is debatable how many people would actually be able to drive it faster, depending on the trim levels of the cars.


Looks better......no way, not even close to my eyes. I am actually suprised to hear you say this since you are also a big fan of the Aston Martin, as I am. I think the Cayman, especially from the side, looks a lot more like the Aston than a 911.

Finally......I am not in any way bashing the 911. It is an iconic, incredibly designed performance machine. However, I have my reasons why I chose not to get one.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by MDREDev

Looks are subjective. I personally think the 981 looks better. Others may feel differently and that isn't right or wrong...just personal preference. Faster? What is faster than what? A 981 GTS or GT4 will be faster than some 991's.......and on top of that really cares? Drive what feels better to you. If you are buying a 981 or 991 you are not buying it for having the fastest car out there from point A to point B. I would venture to say that 95% of the drivers out there would be faster in a 981 vs 991 due to the driving dynamics. But that shit doesn't matter to me because 350-400 HP is more than sufficient for what I am looking to do.

Couldn't agree more !! What I am also discovering is that more and more power in automobiles isn't leading to a more enjoyable driving experience. Yes, there was clearly a time in 80s and 90s where many cars were seriously underpowered, but those days are long gone. For pure driving enjoyment, a lighter car, with moderate, linear power delivery where you can comfortably use the entire power band and throttle range is what will yield the best result. From that standpoint, if I were to get another BMW at this point, I would likely choose the upcoming M2 over the M3/4.

[MDREDev]

I have never been one to keep my "fun cars" very long (1-2 years) but given the direction that cars are going these days (bigger, more idiot options, forced induction), it would not surprise me if you see many people holding on to the NA cars like the current model 991 and 981 as well as the E9XM's.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Faster....definitely. Although it is debatable how many people would actually be able to drive it faster, depending on the trim levels of the cars.


Looks better......no way, not even close to my eyes. I am actually suprised to hear you say this since you are also a big fan of the Aston Martin, as I am. I think the Cayman, especially from the side, looks a lot more like the Aston than a 911.

Finally......I am not in any way bashing the 911. It is an iconic, incredibly designed performance machine. However, I have my reasons why I chose not to get one.

I think the cayman looks good from the front and side angle. the picture you posted earlier on this thread looks pretty good. I am not a fan of the rear end, looks like a boxster. The 911 rear end looks wide and aggressive. the 911 is just a more complete car to me. from every angle it looks good.

I would definitely use the power, although i would most likely not use a cayman or 911 handling capabilities. I all the time wish my M3 had more power for straight line performance.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Faster....definitely. Although it is debatable how many people would actually be able to drive it faster, depending on the trim levels of the cars.


Looks better......no way, not even close to my eyes. I am actually suprised to hear you say this since you are also a big fan of the Aston Martin, as I am. I think the Cayman, especially from the side, looks a lot more like the Aston than a 911.

Finally......I am not in any way bashing the 911. It is an iconic, incredibly designed performance machine. However, I have my reasons why I chose not to get one.

You are exactly right - the Cayman is actually really easy to drive fast around corners even with the crippled suspension. The thing just sticks to track, turn-in speeds are very fast for a street car and the light weight makes it brake quicker than I was willing to test.

Cayman has beautiful lines- but it's not as muscular looking as the 911. And those 305's tucked under the car are pretty cool

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

You are exactly right - the Cayman is actually really easy to drive fast around corners even with the crippled suspension. The thing just sticks to track, turn-in speeds are very fast for a street car and the light weight makes it brake quicker than I was willing to test.

Cayman has beautiful lines- but it's not as muscular looking as the 911. And those 305's tucked under the car are pretty cool

Completely agree that from the rear, the 991 looks more muscular...but what is this crippled suspension of which you speak? In any case, I have the X73 sport suspension and it is fantastic.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Completely agree that from the rear, the 991 looks more muscular...but what is this crippled suspension of which you speak? In any case, I have the X73 sport suspension and it is fantastic.

Nothing wrong with the suspension, it's a strut type on the Cayman compared to multi-link on the 911. I think the GT4 also has the multi-link.

It's purposely crippled by Porsche along with a few other odds and ends that keep the flagship 911 sailing in front.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

You are exactly right - the Cayman is actually really easy to drive fast around corners even with the crippled suspension. The thing just sticks to track, turn-in speeds are very fast for a street car and the light weight makes it brake quicker than I was willing to test.

Cayman has beautiful lines- but it's not as muscular looking as the 911. And those 305's tucked under the car are pretty cool

like i said, the 911 is just a more aggressive car as well as being faster.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

Nothing wrong with the suspension, it's a strut type on the Cayman compared to multi-link on the 911. I think the GT4 also has the multi-link.

It's purposely crippled by Porsche along with a few other odds and ends that keep the flagship 911 sailing in front.

To each their own. Other than the straight line power, I found the driving experience in the Cayman to be better.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

Nothing wrong with the suspension, it's a strut type on the Cayman compared to multi-link on the 911. I think the GT4 also has the multi-link.

It's purposely crippled by Porsche along with a few other odds and ends that keep the flagship 911 sailing in front.

Rear suspension on the cayman had always been an issue because it's basically a simple strut style rear suspension. The 911 rear is much more complicated, and no the GT4 is not a true multi link but revised and upgraded heavily.

991 suspension tuning IMO is outstanding.

[clar]

Want a truly liberated Cayman? Look no further than RUF!

[LarThaL]

I will just put these out there......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxXrDIevmlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mooq7jpNk_g

Doesn't really seem like the Cayman suspesnion is really handicapped in any way when the tires hit the road

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

To each their own. Other than the straight line power, I found the driving experience in the Cayman to be better.

I just think driving a Cayman is a little sanitary - The 911 is visceral and raw.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

I will just put these out there......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxXrDIevmlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mooq7jpNk_g

Doesn't really seem like the Cayman suspesnion is really handicapped in any way when the tires hit the road

Talk to ppl that know and they will tell you other wise.
There are limitations in its inherent design, but good engineering can minimize it. But its nothing that us average drivers should be concerned with, Caymans thresholds are very high.

Just stick a new cayman and a 991 up on hoist and take a look and you will see.

I bet its actually one reason(one of many) why Porsche not until now has never really had a true Cayman race program, which btw is due to be announced this month, the GT4 Cup Car, very exciting.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

I just think driving a Cayman is a little sanitary - The 911 is visceral and raw.

Likely depends on how the car is configured, moreso than how it does with the 911. What some call "sanitary", other call "carving a clean line". As for viceral and raw, this sounds pretty good to me.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkpTyMNV8E

I am still not sure why people find it hard to believe that I chose a top end Cayman model over a 911.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Likely depends on how the car is configured, moreso than how it does with the 911. What some call "sanitary", other call "carving a clean line". As for viceral and raw, this sounds pretty good to me.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkpTyMNV8E

I am still not sure why people find it hard to believe that I chose a top end Cayman model over a 911.

I don't find it hard to believe, I loved my Cayman, but there's reasons it's tiered below the 911

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Likely depends on how the car is configured, moreso than how it does with the 911. What some call "sanitary", other call "carving a clean line". As for viceral and raw, this sounds pretty good to me.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkpTyMNV8E

I am still not sure why people find it hard to believe that I chose a top end Cayman model over a 911.

you are car guy who values more than power. Which i can understand. But i would think most people would take a 911 over a cayman.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Ezio

you are car guy who values more than power. Which i can understand. But i would think most people would take a 911 over a cayman.

To me, this is like saying most people would take any 6 series over a 4 series. The 6 is bigger and more powerful and more expensive. However, let's now say you are comparing a 650 vs an M4? Now which one is more appealing? Or let's go one up and compare an M6 to an M4. Both are twin turbo high performance luxury coupes. So would most people take the M6?

There is no doubt that the 911 is THE icon. It is an incredibly engineerred car. But I would take (and did) a loaded Cayman GTS over a mid-optioned 991S. Now if you want to compare my Cayman GTS with a comparably equipped 991GTS, you may have a case, but I like the looks and supreme responsiveness of the Cayman more. If I didn't have my tuned S6 for when I needed/wanted epic thrust, I may have opted for something with more outright speed capability than my Cayman, so I think you need to look at it in the context of the fact that I have another car with close to 600hp.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

To me, this is like saying most people would take any 6 series over a 4 series. The 6 is bigger and more powerful and more expensive. However, let's now say you are comparing a 650 vs an M4? Now which one is more appealing? Or let's go one up and compare an M6 to an M4. Both are twin turbo high performance luxury coupes. So would most people take the M6?

There is no doubt that the 911 is THE icon. It is an incredibly engineerred car. But I would take (and did) a loaded Cayman GTS over a mid-optioned 991S. Now if you want to compare my Cayman GTS with a comparably equipped 991GTS, you may have a case, but I like the looks and supreme responsiveness of the Cayman more. If I didn't have my tuned S6 for when I needed/wanted epic thrust, I may have opted for something with more outright speed capability than my Cayman, so I think you need to look at it in the context of the fact that I have another car with close to 600hp.

most people are going to want the bigger, more luxurious car. Its the reason why car makers are putting more luxury into cars while also getting bigger. MOST PEOPLE will take a 650 over a m4. people like my mom or sister. the car guys make a much smaller percentage of the car buyers.

there is a small percentage of people who truly want a small light weight car.