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10-01-2008, 10:22 AM | #23 | |
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10-01-2008, 10:44 AM | #24 |
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I'm pretty sure EVO and Autocar used a customer's car which he had imported from Japan to do their early comparison test and it performed the exact same as every other test so far (i.e beat everything else).
When you resort to running down someone elses product I think you have failed to win the argument. I honestly thought better of Porsche than this. |
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10-01-2008, 11:18 AM | #25 |
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I will reserve my opinion until Autosport posts the GTR numbers.
BTW, I started a thread on the whoring of Nordscheilfe.....it is playing out in spades now. And for the Caddy lovers who though John Heinracy was just an ordinary engineer when he cracked 8:00 in the new CTS-V.... Watch this video... **************************car-videos-08...vette-ZR-1.htm
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10-01-2008, 11:21 AM | #26 |
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just read a piece somewhere discussing how there's no standard to how these times are measured to begin with, so it's not clear that comparisons are valid unless it's the same source testing each car.
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10-01-2008, 02:03 PM | #27 | |
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10-01-2008, 02:17 PM | #28 |
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10-01-2008, 02:19 PM | #29 | |
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The car is not faster in acceleration than a 997 turbo, every test, especially head to head, has the GTR running slower times, as its porky ass should. |
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10-01-2008, 02:22 PM | #30 | |
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The GTR is not lapping what a Carrera GT laps, people are so stupid it is incredible. |
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10-01-2008, 02:23 PM | #31 | |
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So the sales rep gave this info? Its actually possible and I am surprised something so logical could come from a dealership sales rep. However, most likely, it is just a good theory. In reality GTR's have historically always been underrated. This particular version is actually not as underrated as the R34 or R33 was. What was the old figure...260hp or something for the R34/33...what a joke. Jason
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10-01-2008, 02:56 PM | #32 | |
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Here you go.
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http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6591 Nissan GTR: Points: 386.6 Lap Times: 1:56.9 http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6592 Z06 Corvette: Points: 384.2 Lap Times: 2:02.2 http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6593 911 Turbo: Points: 380.7 Lap Times: 2:02.1 Last edited by jaeS4; 10-01-2008 at 03:32 PM.. |
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10-01-2008, 03:46 PM | #34 | |
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10-01-2008, 03:49 PM | #35 |
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I disagree that all GTRs which have been tested are tweaked by Nissan, especially the ones which were personal imports.
When people praised the M3 for matching the R8 on the ring, did anyone here make the comment 'that car was tweaked' and 'no M3 should be able to equal an R8'. No of course they didn't, this is a BMW forum. That's the reason why so many here are disbelieve the GTR could possibly be this quick, after all it's the price of an M3 but destroys it. Whether the GTR is capable of 7:29 is really irrelevant, what is the issue is that Porsche are saying that it's little quicker than a 280hp NSX-R (7:56). Sorry but that is absurd and Porsche should know better, every test, every one has shown the GTR to be quicker than the 997tt and we are not talking of the odd tenth of a second here or there, the difference is usually seconds and that should amount to the GTR being considerable quicker on the ring. If Porsche says the 997tt is capable of lapping the ring in 7:40 then I would think that the time Nissan achieved with the GTR is perfectly acceptable. |
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10-01-2008, 03:57 PM | #36 | |
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P.S. The R33 and R34 are a totally different argument, back then there was an agreement between the manufacturers of Japan and the Government to restrict outputs to 280PS, this is no longer an issue and Nissan can produce as much as they see fit. If they wanted the R35 to have 600hp there was nothing stopping them. |
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10-01-2008, 04:48 PM | #37 | |
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In pretty much every comparison test I've read (on both sides of the Atlantic), the GT-R is merely mortal out on the road, compared to, say, the Porsche Turbo and Corvette Z06. It has an apparently magical launch control system which makes it work out very well in the standing start quarter mile, but at speed, the other two cars have it covered in terms of acceleration. On a road course, however, the GT-R simply walks away from the other two, no matter the track, and no matter the magazine doing the test. The Road and Track comparison test quoted above is typical. The GT-R in this test is clearly down on power to weight compared to the other two. Although launch control means it's only a tick behind the Porsche and Vette at the quarter mile point, it finishes the quarter at 116 MPH, while the other two cars are in the 120s. Yet, on the track, the GT-R blows away the other two by about 2.5 seconds per minute. 2.5 seconds per minute! Then there's the actual vs rated power issue. Swamp and I (and others) have debated this ad nauseum, but with many tests of U.S. spec cars now on the books, it certainly seems as if the car is making more than its rated power. By how much, I'm not sure, because I'm simply not smart enough to authoritatively predict how much power is lost in the driveline. This is because the GT-R directs more power to the rear wheels than the fronts when traction is good, so less power will be lost in the drive train than if the power is equally distributed. In any event, I can't seem to find anything that says the car's power is SAE certified, which in itself is suspect, since my understanding is that each of the Japanese manufacturers promised to SAE certify the power ratings of everything sold in the U.S. (Anybody have data to the contrary?) All this said, I believe a production GT-R (with whatever power that makes) did a 7:29 at the 'Ring, at a guess on those sticky Dunlops which are apparently the hot tip on this car (as opposed to the Bridgestones, which are merely terrific). I have never seen a comparison test where the GT-R could stay with the Porsche in a straight line (except for the launch), and I've never seen a comparison test where the Porsche could stay with the GT-R on a road course. Porsche needs to put up or shut up. Bruce |
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10-01-2008, 04:58 PM | #38 | |
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I'd venture to guess that Heinricy is a known quantity to anybody who is a carnut - even on a BMW site. Bruce PS - Looking at that 7:59 lap, it struck me how relaxed Heinricy looked. Of course, some of that was because the car was an automatic, which is itself interesting because obviously the automatic is quicker than the stick, or that would not have been the transmission of choice. |
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10-01-2008, 05:06 PM | #39 | |
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Bruce |
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10-01-2008, 05:16 PM | #40 | |
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In fact, the GT-R did a 7:29 at the 'Ring, and since it's been shown to be demonstrably quicker around a road course (any road course) than the Porsche Turbo, even when it can't match the Porsche in a straight line except at launch, what's so hard to believe? 11 seconds in more than 7 minutes seems to fall in line with the gap seen at other venues. Bruce PS - When a physicist doesn't have all the facts, physics gets to be pretty damned imprecise. |
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10-01-2008, 05:40 PM | #41 |
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Maybe Porsche and Nissan can have a factory wheel to wheel shootout (with stock cars) to settle this.
Of course, if Porsche loses, Nissan will have a party with it. |
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10-01-2008, 05:48 PM | #42 | |
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and no sticky, tests where 997 beat the GTR are very rare compared to the other much more common case. Marketing involvement of Porsche like that only reflects development failures. if Porsche's claims are BS they gonna be hella embarrassed |
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10-01-2008, 08:19 PM | #44 | ||||||||
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Another well respected and highly talented non believer was Alain Prost who tested the GTR against some Lambo’s and the Ferrari Scud etc. Quote:
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The Nurburgring is a long track, the short gearing which is good for tighter tracks should be a disadvantage. The GTR recorded a 180mph top speed along the main straight, the ZR1 only achieved 179 along the same stretch. One can only conclude that the GTR had far more power. |
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