anyone with DCT, use heeltoe or left foot brake

EJ_92606 · 03-21-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

I have had everything that the M division has had to offer(Except the M6) in every one of those vehicles, the car has cut throttle when the gas pedal and brake have been pushed simultaneously.

haha, you've got to be kidding me. Please get in your car and go try it. You are simply mistaken. I'm on my 7th bimmer and I have never experienced cut out. If you have a runaway car and your foot is to the floor on both brake and gas, then yes you will get a throttle cut out...but that's not what we are discussing here.

EJ_92606 · 03-21-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

And I'm on my 11th or 12th BMW in a decade, your point being? No, I'm not kidding you. The car cuts power the second you get on the brakes. That's what it was for me, at least.

Please go get in your car and see for yourself...this conversation is just silly.

yellowstone · 03-21-2010, 07:42 PM

maybe i'm misunderstanding something but how can you do a burnout in a dct if you can't hold the break and hit the gas at the same time? I'm pretty sure I can do this...

Radiation Joe · 03-21-2010, 07:54 PM

To answer the OPs original question:

Yes. I use heel and toe to facilitate a quicker downshift while braking. Even if you in S4 or S5, the transmission takes it's sweet time letting out the clutch. I use S2 for manual shifting and blip the throttle manually for a downshift. This gets the car into the lower gear much faster than waiting for the transmission to do it on its own in S4.

If the car cut the throttle when simultaneously pressing the brake and throttle, this would not be possible.

I'm too uncoordinated to left foot brake effectively. Besides, it squishes my balls when I try to get my left foot all the way over to the brake pedal.

ersin · 03-21-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

The only time that I left foot brake is at a stop light going uphill to avoid the car rolling backwards.

Don't DCT cars have the brake hold feature? I have an '08 6MT and when I take my foot off of the brake they are still applied for a couple of seconds preventing the car from rolling backwards on a hill. It's very well executed too.

My SMG M3 had this feature but it didn't work nearly as good as the E92. This is one of the times where using left foot braking worked really good with SMG. Much better than using the E46 hill hold feature because it would still allow the car to roll backwards a little bit.

signes · 03-21-2010, 08:16 PM

SMG would allow you to do your own rev matches - it wouldn't match revs on off-throttle downshifts unless you're really moving and in S4 or higher. Think of general daily driving slowing down for a turn or a stop then doing the blip yourself. I never really left foot braked in my E46. No idea about either with DCT as I now have a manual again, just verifying that it was possible/common with SMG.

ahtim · 03-21-2010, 08:17 PM

haha, guys, i cant believe there are so many replies,

i have own a DCT for 13000km already, it is in HK,

firstly the reason i say heeltoe, is because in E46smg age, i always heeltoe when sift down (use right foot to brake, while the gear is shifting down, use the right side of your right foot to hit the gas a bit, then it makes a really loud shifting down noise, much aggressive than normal shift down)

that is why i said that, but since several years ago, i started to drive all automatic cars with left foot brake now, it is much for quicker, quicker as in(your foot at least dun have to travel from gas to brake, your left foot is on the brake, getting ready)

so when i drive the dct now, i always use left foot to brake, and now it is somehow my natural to use left foot brake, when i get in a car.

so when i want to heeltoe my dct, i feel a bit scare, coz i feel i cant brake quickly.

dunknow if this is bad or good,

EJ_92606 · 03-21-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowstone

maybe i'm misunderstanding something but how can you do a burnout in a dct if you can't hold the break and hit the gas at the same time? I'm pretty sure I can do this...

Brake torque launches, heel and toe downshifting, and left foot braking would all be impossible if GhostRideTheWip was correct. He is mistaken.

ersin · 03-21-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

I have had everything that the M division has had to offer(Except the M6) in every one of those vehicles, the car has cut throttle when the gas pedal and brake have been pushed simultaneously.

Strange. My E46 M3 SMG did not cut the throttle when I applied the brake. I take it that all of these M cars of yours had some sort of auto (SMG or DCT)?

SoreHead · 03-21-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

To answer the OPs original question:

Yes. I use heel and toe to facilitate a quicker downshift while braking. Even if you in S4 or S5, the transmission takes it's sweet time letting out the clutch. I use S2 for manual shifting and blip the throttle manually for a downshift. This gets the car into the lower gear much faster than waiting for the transmission to do it on its own in S4.

If the car cut the throttle when simultaneously pressing the brake and throttle, this would not be possible.

I'm too uncoordinated to left foot brake effectively. Besides, it squishes my balls when I try to get my left foot all the way over to the brake pedal.

??
Why the hell would you attempt to heel, toe a car that rev matches down changes automatically? It makes no sense.
The blip that car does on down change is effectively a heel, toe. Can you turn off the blip? If you can, why would you want to? You're not going to do it as well as the car can or as consistently. It all smacks of madness to me. Mad. Mad I tells ya......

ersin · 03-21-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Yep.

I see that you had an '04 M3 which I am assuming then was SMG. I had an '02. I wonder if BMW changed the SMG programming or something after 2002.

ahtim · 03-21-2010, 08:31 PM

i have a 08 530i with S-DCT as well, and i have try million times to heel toe it, and it just doesnt work.

so i assume it is a feature only in M cars

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahtim

haha, guys, i cant believe there are so many replies,

i have own a DCT for 13000km already, it is in HK,

firstly the reason i say heeltoe, is because in E46smg age, i always heeltoe when sift down (use right foot to brake, while the gear is shifting down, use the right side of your right foot to hit the gas a bit, then it makes a really loud shifting down noise, much aggressive than normal shift down)

that is why i said that, but since several years ago, i started to drive all automatic cars with left foot brake now, it is much for quicker, quicker as in(your foot at least dun have to travel from gas to brake, your left foot is on the brake, getting ready)

so when i drive the dct now, i always use left foot to brake, and now it is somehow my natural to use left foot brake, when i get in a car.

so when i want to heeltoe my dct, i feel a bit scare, coz i feel i cant brake quickly.

dunknow if this is bad or good,

captainaudio · 03-21-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

It's a semi-auto.

It is as much an automatic as a Steptronic. It may use a different technology but it is still an automatic (no clutch pedal) and the technique of driving an SMG a Steptronic and a DCT are identical.

Heel and toeing is using the right foot to simultaneously operate the brake and the throttle while the left foot is operating the clutch. With no clutch pedal there is no need to heel and toe - two pedals - two feet.

The purpose of heel and toe is to rev match a downshift. The DCT, SMG and Steptronic will all perfectly rev match a downshift so there is no need to heel and toe.

Virtually all F1 drivers and most ALMS drivers left foot brake. When driving at the limit the brakes are as much for maintaining the contact patches and balancing the car as they are for slowing the car.

CA

tuco44 · 03-21-2010, 08:51 PM

I have an '09 MY M3 DCT and you can definitely left foot on the brake while your right is one the gas pedal. I do it often. It does not cut off the gas pedal.

But this is NOT the heel and toe procedure which is for manny tranny only IMO.

The 7 spd DCT tranny is only in the current M3 and coming in the new 335is for the NA market. I am not aware of this tranny in any other BMW so those who are claiming they have a DCT tranny in other BMWs are mistaken. DCT and SMG are not the same tranny.

captainaudio · 03-21-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuco44

I have an '09 MY M3 DCT and you can definitely left foot on the brake while your right is one the gas pedal. I do it often. It does not cut off the gas pedal.

But this is NOT the heel and toe procedure which is for manny tranny only IMO.

The 7 spd DCT tranny is only in the current M3 and coming in the new 335is for the NA market. I am not aware of this tranny in any other BMW so those who are claiming they have a DCT tranny in other BMWs are mistaken. DCT and SMG are not the same tranny.

Exactly

Paddle shifted transmissions may have similar functionality but DCT, SMG and Steptronic use very different technologies.

CA

EJ_92606 · 03-21-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuco44

The 7 spd DCT tranny is only in the current M3 and coming in the new 335is for the NA market. I am not aware of this tranny in any other BMW so those who are claiming they have a DCT tranny in other BMWs are mistaken. DCT and SMG are not the same tranny.

The poster that claimed he had a 530 DCT was from Hong Kong. It's certainly possible as I know in Europe DCT has been an option on many models. But glad to hear that DCT will not prevent me from left foot braking as GhostRideWhip had previously stated.

ahtim · 03-21-2010, 09:24 PM

this is my gear box
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Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

The poster that claimed he had a 530 DCT was from Hong Kong. It's certainly possible as I know in Europe DCT has been an option on many models. But glad to hear that DCT will not prevent me from left foot braking as GhostRideWhip had previously stated.

Stunnerable · 03-21-2010, 09:45 PM

I don't even know what to say here...

You can ONLY heel-and-toe when you have 3 pedals under your feet. If you want to.. buy a proper manual.

MysticBlue · 03-21-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stunnerable

I don't even know what to say here...

This is one of the stupidest threads I've seen. I've started several replies, but just decided I should go find something more constructive to do...

signes · 03-21-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stunnerable

I don't even know what to say here...

You can ONLY heel-and-toe when you have 3 pedals under your feet. If you want to.. buy a proper manual.

Sorry, false. Can't speak to DCT but you aren't correct re SMG.

captainaudio · 03-21-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

This is one of the stupidest threads I've seen. I've started several replies, but just decided I should go find something more constructive to do...

Be sure to tune in tommorow for "How to paddle shift a manual transmission".

But seriously this thread does leave me scratching my head.

CA

Radiation Joe · 03-21-2010, 11:32 PM

It's funny how many people are responding to this thread claiming that you can't, shouldn't, why would you, heel and toe the DCT.

Please just keep your uninformed opinions to yourselves. It is not a stupid thread. There is a very real reason to heel and toe the DCT. The transmission can't do it very well on its own. There are a handful of folks that understand why this is so. All of you folks that a) don't own a DCT, b) have never mastered a manual heel and toe downshift, or c) think S4, S5 or S6 are useful high performance modes for track driving should just move on to an RPI scoop thread.

03-21-2010, 07:42 PM	#25
yellowstone Private 3 Rep 68 Posts Drives: 2009 SG E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	maybe i'm misunderstanding something but how can you do a burnout in a dct if you can't hold the break and hit the gas at the same time? I'm pretty sure I can do this...
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03-21-2010, 07:54 PM	#26
Radiation Joe Veni Vidi Vici 89 Rep 2,750 Posts Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Macungie PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50] 2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00]	To answer the OPs original question: Yes. I use heel and toe to facilitate a quicker downshift while braking. Even if you in S4 or S5, the transmission takes it's sweet time letting out the clutch. I use S2 for manual shifting and blip the throttle manually for a downshift. This gets the car into the lower gear much faster than waiting for the transmission to do it on its own in S4. If the car cut the throttle when simultaneously pressing the brake and throttle, this would not be possible. I'm too uncoordinated to left foot brake effectively. Besides, it squishes my balls when I try to get my left foot all the way over to the brake pedal. Last edited by Radiation Joe; 03-21-2010 at 07:55 PM.. Reason: Thought I'd be more polite.
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03-21-2010, 08:16 PM	#28
signes Brigadier General 209 Rep 4,319 Posts Drives: 991 GT3 RS Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Living at (almost...) 9k iTrader: (5)	SMG would allow you to do your own rev matches - it wouldn't match revs on off-throttle downshifts unless you're really moving and in S4 or higher. Think of general daily driving slowing down for a turn or a stop then doing the blip yourself. I never really left foot braked in my E46. No idea about either with DCT as I now have a manual again, just verifying that it was possible/common with SMG. __________________ GT3 RS \| Desperately seeking the next great M car...
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03-21-2010, 08:17 PM	#29
ahtim Akrapovic HK 73 Rep 274 Posts Drives: mostly NA, sometimes turbo Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Hk/ China / UK iTrader: (0)	haha, guys, i cant believe there are so many replies, i have own a DCT for 13000km already, it is in HK, firstly the reason i say heeltoe, is because in E46smg age, i always heeltoe when sift down (use right foot to brake, while the gear is shifting down, use the right side of your right foot to hit the gas a bit, then it makes a really loud shifting down noise, much aggressive than normal shift down) that is why i said that, but since several years ago, i started to drive all automatic cars with left foot brake now, it is much for quicker, quicker as in(your foot at least dun have to travel from gas to brake, your left foot is on the brake, getting ready) so when i drive the dct now, i always use left foot to brake, and now it is somehow my natural to use left foot brake, when i get in a car. so when i want to heeltoe my dct, i feel a bit scare, coz i feel i cant brake quickly. dunknow if this is bad or good,
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03-21-2010, 08:51 PM	#36
tuco44 Colonel 647 Rep 2,292 Posts Drives: 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Western Canada iTrader: (0)	I have an '09 MY M3 DCT and you can definitely left foot on the brake while your right is one the gas pedal. I do it often. It does not cut off the gas pedal. But this is NOT the heel and toe procedure which is for manny tranny only IMO. The 7 spd DCT tranny is only in the current M3 and coming in the new 335is for the NA market. I am not aware of this tranny in any other BMW so those who are claiming they have a DCT tranny in other BMWs are mistaken. DCT and SMG are not the same tranny. __________________ 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Sunset Orange Previous BMWs - 19 others since 1971.
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03-21-2010, 09:45 PM	#40
Stunnerable Captain 74 Rep 757 Posts Drives: Nissan Rogue, 09 Jet Black M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Horsham, PA iTrader: (0)	I don't even know what to say here... You can ONLY heel-and-toe when you have 3 pedals under your feet. If you want to.. buy a proper manual. __________________ Straight roads are for fast cars. Curvy roads are for fast drivers.
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03-21-2010, 11:32 PM	#44
Radiation Joe Veni Vidi Vici 89 Rep 2,750 Posts Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Macungie PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50] 2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00]	It's funny how many people are responding to this thread claiming that you can't, shouldn't, why would you, heel and toe the DCT. Please just keep your uninformed opinions to yourselves. It is not a stupid thread. There is a very real reason to heel and toe the DCT. The transmission can't do it very well on its own. There are a handful of folks that understand why this is so. All of you folks that a) don't own a DCT, b) have never mastered a manual heel and toe downshift, or c) think S4, S5 or S6 are useful high performance modes for track driving should just move on to an RPI scoop thread.
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