BMW M3 DCT Coupe vs Audi RS4, (acceleration)

Sticky · 12-27-2009, 04:09 AM

Strictly straight line speed...

Where was straight line speed during a torrential downpour mentioned?

Straight line speed, stock, modded, upside down, whatever, you have to be blind and seeing rings to not realize the M3 wins, decisively.

footie · 12-27-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Strictly straight line speed...

Where was straight line speed during a torrential downpour mentioned?

Straight line speed, stock, modded, upside down, whatever, you have to be blind and seeing rings to not realize the M3 wins, decisively.

That is why I mentioned that in the bone dry the M3 will be quicker, though the gap is relatively small on anything other than a grippy surface because the traction on a normal surface still hand the advantage to the awd car and it gets the jump that the rwd car is playing catch up for the early part of the race. Depending on the traction issues the gap will be either small or slightly larger and the video from the GTBoard event shows that it took fifth gear for the M3 to get on terms with the RS4 and over take it.

Bottom line is that regardless of the traction issues an M3 could possibly have on the even a dry surface, it will still ultimately overtook the RS4. But if you add wet to the surface then even you have to admit that the M3 won't stand much of a chance.

mixja · 12-27-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

Yes it has drive train loss (though not nearly as bad as you think) and it weighs approx 80kg more but in can prove to be a benefit if your weather is prone to constant changes. As you live in California I would agree that it holds no real benefit and sticking with rwd is probably the wiser decision, unless you prefer the driving charactistics of the awd chassis/drive train.

The weight difference has been shown to be more like 110kg between the M3 Coupe and the Euro RS4 (all really depends on options of course - see www.rri.se dyno database for proof).

Also the US RS4 model is heavier than the Euro RS4 model...

footie · 12-27-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixja

The weight difference has been shown to be more like 110kg between the M3 Coupe and the Euro RS4 (all really depends on options of course - see www.rri.se dyno database for proof).

Also the US RS4 model is heavier than the Euro RS4 model...

Weight will be more an issue than the awd lose will ever be (the thing that so many people here seen to think). Bottom line is that PTW is the number one factor in acceleration, but when any race starts for a complete stop then the awd cars will always hold the early advantage, and this advantage will be either less or greater depending on the skill of the driver in the rwd car and how grippy the surface is (this is me only talking about dry conditions mind).

On a rolling start the car with the better PTW will always win, no question but for a stop I think many an M3 owner will be very surprised by the results of racing an RS4 or the like.

Here's two video showing very similar results of being quicker on a rolling start but find it extremely difficult to get on terms with an RS4 for a standing start.

Check out from 2:37.
[u2b]axb19DwhqUk&feature=fvw[/u2b]
Check out from 3:37.

Yes both eventually gain control but in both cases it's after 140mph and by then most standing start races will have ended. These are typical results of two M cars both with superior PTW struggling against heavier awd cars because of traction of very typical surfaces that you are likely to meet on normal streets and not the dragstrips that so many here believe are relevant.

M&M · 12-27-2009, 04:40 PM

That video is not representative as the M3 driver does not seem to have experience controlling the wheelspin. Well actually it might be representative of 2 average drivers racing. An experienced M3 racer should pass the RS4 before 50mph from a stop.

And what's with this racing in the rain story. I have a quattro car & I never race in the rain. There are too many factors out your control. Your stopping distances increase, there is a chance of aquaplaning with all the puddles about & there are other road users also battling with visibility and grip. I doubt anyone cares which car is faster in the rain.

Sticky · 12-27-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M

That video is not representative as the M3 driver does not seem to have experience controlling the wheelspin. Well actually it might be representative of 2 average drivers racing. An experienced M3 racer should pass the RS4 before 50mph from a stop.

And what's with this racing in the rain story. I have a quattro car & I never race in the rain. There are too many factors out your control. Your stopping distances increase, there is a chance of aquaplaning with all the puddles about & there are other road users also battling with visibility and grip. I doubt anyone cares which car is faster in the rain.

Stop it, you are making too much sense.

footie · 12-28-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M

That video is not representative as the M3 driver does not seem to have experience controlling the wheelspin. Well actually it might be representative of 2 average drivers racing. An experienced M3 racer should pass the RS4 before 50mph from a stop.

I would say those results are very typical of most drivers racing from a stand still. They may not be typical of someone who frequences dragstrips but most racing at streetlights only happen at off-chance and usually don't run up to 140mph, that was why I said many M3 owners will be surprised when racing anything with similar power and awd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M

And what's with this racing in the rain story. I have a quattro car & I never race in the rain. There are too many factors out your control. Your stopping distances increase, there is a chance of aquaplaning with all the puddles about & there are other road users also battling with visibility and grip. I doubt anyone cares which car is faster in the rain.

I have raced many a time in the rain, though usually not higher than a ton and simply to prove the point at the time when I owned a quattro car of it's superiority at those times. I remember racing a 911 in my S5 and the result was the same, 4+ car lengths to the ton and that is a rwd car with superior traction than almost all others including the M3.

P.S.
On the rolling start it will always be the M3 victorious but on a standing start the outcome isn't always going to be what you think.

mPlasticDesign · 12-29-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuespeedgti

YES, thank you! That is the Top Gear episode I was refering to. Audi is now "cock" central! LOL

chris719 · 01-01-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Metak

I think you might have that backwards. Clarkson said all the cocks that drove the M3 in it's last incarnation who have moved onto Audi because it has cool LED's are cocks for not driving and M3 now! Something to that affect. Besides he has repeatedly stated he prefers RWD!

TopGear Episode___?

I didn't mean that he prefers AWD, I meant that if you watch him drive on the show, he basically spends half of a review sideways with tires smoking if the car is capable of it.

mPlasticDesign · 01-04-2010, 09:23 AM

Why did my post get deleted? I broke absolutely NO forum rules? Mods please explain.... Why so overzealous? So can anyone even have a different opinion to Footies without getting thier post deleted? Let the healthy discussions go unless someone personally attacks someone else, which I DID NOT DO!!! This is getting old fast...

southlight · 01-04-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Why did my post get deleted? I broke absolutely NO forum rules? Mods please explain.... Why so overzealous? So can anyone even have a different opinion to Footies without getting thier post deleted? Let the healthy discussions go unless someone personally attacks someone else, which I DID NOT DO!!! This is getting old fast...

Your post was deleted because it quoted a post I had to delete, either. So, your post wasn't offensive enough to get deleted by itself, but got into an arising argument I wanted to stop.

Please feel free to send me or the other mods a PM whenever you want to know the reason for a moderation.

Best regards,
south

mPlasticDesign · 01-04-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southlight

Your post was deleted because it quoted a post I had to delete, either. So, your post wasn't offensive enough to get deleted by itself, but got into an arising argument I wanted to stop.

Please feel free to send me or the other mods a PM whenever you want to know the reason for a moderation.

Best regards,
south

Thanks South, I will PM in the future. However, I don't which Mod did the deleting..?

southlight · 01-04-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Thanks South, I will PM in the future. However, I don't which Mod did the deleting..?

Just contact one of us and we forward the PM to the mod who did the deleting. Thanks!

Best regards,
south

footie · 01-04-2010, 01:08 PM

I'm please this thread didn't get closed like so many ones do, as on the whole things have been discussed in a reasonably mature manner.

FStop7 · 01-04-2010, 02:23 PM

There are some good Audi forums out there. Maybe all of this domineering Audi chat is better suited for them, no?

mPlasticDesign · 01-04-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I'm please this thread didn't get closed like so many ones do, as on the whole things have been discussed in a reasonably mature manner.

We are ALL glad you are pleased.

southlight · 01-04-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Metak

We are ALL glad you are pleased.

My irony-o-meter just exploded analyzing your post.

Best regards,
south

footie · 01-04-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Metak

We are ALL glad you are pleased.

I don't know what to make of this comment?

Are you saying that all non related BMW posts should be closed, if so then it would be a very boring place to be, after all this is a car enthusiasts forum this centres on BMW products but not exclusively.

mPlasticDesign · 01-04-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I don't know what to make of this comment?

Are you saying that all non related BMW posts should be closed, if so then it would be a very boring place to be, after all this is a car enthusiasts forum this centres on BMW products but not exclusively.

No, that is not what I'm saying. I just don't understand why you have to announce how pleased you are that the mods didn't close the thread. Who cares? The mods are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of how YOU feel, if they are worthy of holding the title of Moderator. I like talking about all makes of cars and you are right this is a BMW forum, yet the MAJORITY of your posts are Audi related, seems way too disproportionate for a site that "centres" on BMW products.

I still would like you to explain why you think Top Gear is "pure theatre" ? The show has three hosts that are very knowledgeable enthusiastic about many different cars. What about all the professional drivers from all walks of life that guest on the show? You managed to shut down the Top Gear references as "pure theatre" and push your own opinions as though they are more legitimate. Like I said before, I would bet my paycheck Captain Slow would outdrive you in the moderately price econcar or any car for that matter. Later

southlight · 01-04-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Metak

No, that is not what I'm saying. I just don't understand why you have to announce how pleased you are that the mods didn't close the thread. Who cares? The mods are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of how YOU feel, if they are worthy of holding the title of Moderator. I like talking about all makes of cars and you are right this is a BMW forum, yet the MAJORITY of your posts are Audi related, seems way too disproportionate for a site that "centres" on BMW products.

I still would like you to explain why you think Top Gear is "pure theatre" ? The show has three hosts that are very knowledgeable enthusiastic about many different cars. What about all the professional drivers from all walks of life that guest on the show? You managed to shut down the Top Gear references as "pure theatre" and push your own opinions as though they are more legitimate. Like I said before, I would bet my paycheck Captain Slow would outdrive you in the moderately price econcar or any car for that matter. Later

You're wrong, this won't get deleted.

Best regards,
south

Nawaaz · 01-04-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southlight

You're wrong, this won't get deleted.

Best regards,
south

footie · 01-04-2010, 04:50 PM

The pure threater comment refers to getting to desired result for the benefit of entertainment. Maybe you are unfamiliar as to how the show is run, it's not a democracy, James is always presented as the slowest, Richard as the one with the weird choices and JC as the one that looks like he's made the stupidest choice only at the end to be proved correct.

It's pure threater, brilliant and entertaining but seldom factual.

12-27-2009, 04:09 AM	#23
Sticky Banned 79 Rep 2,244 Posts Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu iTrader: (0)	Strictly straight line speed... Where was straight line speed during a torrential downpour mentioned? Straight line speed, stock, modded, upside down, whatever, you have to be blind and seeing rings to not realize the M3 wins, decisively.
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12-27-2009, 04:40 PM	#27
M&M Captain 114 Rep 750 Posts Drives: Boosted Beemers! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa iTrader: (0)	That video is not representative as the M3 driver does not seem to have experience controlling the wheelspin. Well actually it might be representative of 2 average drivers racing. An experienced M3 racer should pass the RS4 before 50mph from a stop. And what's with this racing in the rain story. I have a quattro car & I never race in the rain. There are too many factors out your control. Your stopping distances increase, there is a chance of aquaplaning with all the puddles about & there are other road users also battling with visibility and grip. I doubt anyone cares which car is faster in the rain.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 09:23 AM	#32
mPlasticDesign Major General 694 Rep 5,072 Posts Drives: BMW 230i Msport w/LSD Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Astral Projecting: ∞ 23.516 -122 02.625 0242.101 ĕv'rē-hwâr' iTrader: (16) Garage List 2009 Porsche 911 997.2 [10.00] 2019 Hyundai N (Sold) [10.00] 2013 BMW M3 (Sold) [10.00] 2011 1M Coupe (Sold) [8.78] 2008 E90 M3 (Sold) [8.60] 2007 Z4 Mcpe (Sold) [9.50] 2005 BMW M3 (Sold) [10.00]	Why did my post get deleted? I broke absolutely NO forum rules? Mods please explain.... Why so overzealous? So can anyone even have a different opinion to Footies without getting thier post deleted? Let the healthy discussions go unless someone personally attacks someone else, which I DID NOT DO!!! This is getting old fast... __________________
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01-04-2010, 01:08 PM	#36
footie Major General 1207 Rep 8,034 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	I'm please this thread didn't get closed like so many ones do, as on the whole things have been discussed in a reasonably mature manner.
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01-04-2010, 02:23 PM	#37
FStop7 I like cars 336 Rep 5,052 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA iTrader: (3)	There are some good Audi forums out there. Maybe all of this domineering Audi chat is better suited for them, no? __________________ My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/
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01-04-2010, 04:50 PM	#44
footie Major General 1207 Rep 8,034 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	The pure threater comment refers to getting to desired result for the benefit of entertainment. Maybe you are unfamiliar as to how the show is run, it's not a democracy, James is always presented as the slowest, Richard as the one with the weird choices and JC as the one that looks like he's made the stupidest choice only at the end to be proved correct. It's pure threater, brilliant and entertaining but seldom factual.
	Appreciate 0 Quote