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08-23-2013, 11:27 AM | #23 | |
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I don't believe you can't machine them after the fact...but that's not my area of expertise. Another person asked if you can resize the journal with the crank still in the engine. I believe there used to be a way to do this decades ago, but I'm not sure it's still in use. I wouldn't use it. I'm also not sure it would put the correct treating and surface back on the journal. Maybe kawasaki00 can chime in about this. That's all I've got for you on it. BTW, props to EAS for offering this service to their customers. |
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08-23-2013, 11:28 AM | #24 |
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1) is this mainly an issue with 2008 M3's? I read somewhere that the part number for the rod bearings where changed for 2009
2) I change my oil every 5,000 miles and send it in for analysis each time. Is it lead levels that I look at? especially if each subsequent sample shows rising levels? 3) Once changed, is this something that needs to be changed every 75,000 to 100,000 miles? So if I have 200,000 miles on the car I have to do this again? or do the new bearings correct the issue causing this? 4) I have a really good extended warranty on my car... can EAS recommend me to an ASE certified mechanic (needs to be ASE certified unless EAS knows a work around to get it covered under warranty) that can get the rod bearing replacement warranted based on my lead levels? What's the minimum cost to drop the oil pan and inspect? 5) There are so many threads regarding this... what is BMWNA's official stance on this? Will they fix this like they did the E46 M3s? |
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08-23-2013, 11:36 AM | #25 | |
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http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...21&hg=11&fg=20 |
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08-23-2013, 11:39 AM | #26 | |
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Cylinder numbering is 1 through 4 on passenger (right) side and 5 through 8 on driver (left) side. Numbers 1 and 5 are at the front, 4 and 8 are at the rear. Ignition firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 (except S65 = 1-5-4-8-7-2-6-3). Bank-1 is the passenger side (cylinders 1 through 4), bank-2 is the driver side (cylinders 5 through 8). Bearing for #4 look pretty bad, too - at the back like #8.
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08-23-2013, 11:45 AM | #27 | |
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2) Generally lead 3) There is a debate on whether this should be treated as a "regular" interval/maintenance item. Nobody has tested the coated bearings, whether they will fare better than OEM. Many people are saying there is a clearance issue in the S65 which these coated bearings do not seem to address (or could possibly make worse if thicker than OEM.) 4) Not a chance you would get these replaced under warranty 5) No official stance at all and will not change. The failure rates on the S54 were huge in comparison, only limited numbers of failures for the S65 thus far.
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08-23-2013, 11:47 AM | #28 | |
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I was hinting at potentailly making the journals thiner and use the coating thickness (though not the most accurate process) to make up the difference and create an OEM fitment. You definitely did a lot more research than me (me = none), I was just looking at alternatives and thinking outside the box. I am by no means a automobile engine engineer...I stick to the jet engines, quite different! Cheers mate! |
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08-23-2013, 12:14 PM | #29 | |
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And if my car is not modified, and I have an extended warranty that goes until 100,000 or 120,000 miles (I can't remember), why will this not be covered? I would think the warranty company is better off covering the prematurely worn rod bearings for several thousand rather than a whole engine for $25,000... |
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08-23-2013, 12:21 PM | #30 | |
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08-23-2013, 12:42 PM | #31 | |
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08-23-2013, 12:50 PM | #32 | |
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The pankl catalog is not that great and I also have a email to them about if they do make anything. We race parts from both manufacturers so they will give it to me straight. Good news or bad.
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08-23-2013, 12:50 PM | #33 | |
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http://www.carmax.com/enUS/maxcare/default.html Before buying this warranty I checked with both local indy BMW and VW/ Audi shops that are ASE certified and they all said it was very easy for them to work with Maxcare as far as getting coverage and reimbursement for repairs. My former VW/Audi mechanic even told me they had to have an engine replaced which was covered easily. What is covered "Gasoline Engine - Cylinder block, and all internal lubricated parts including: crank shaft, rod and main bearings, cam bearings, expansion (freeze) plugs, connecting rods, wrist pins, pistons, piston rings, camshaft, cam tower, lifters, cylinder head, valves and guides, valve springs, rocker arms (cam followers), pushrods, timing chain housing (cover), timing chain and sprockets, timing belt and pulleys, timing belt tensioner, intake and exhaust manifolds, exhaust manifold cover, flywheel, balance shafts, harmonic balancer and retainer bolt, crank shaft pulley, valve covers, idle speed control, fuel pressure regulator, barometric pressure sensor, oxygen sensor, throttle position sensor, mass air flow sensor, idle air control solenoid, oil pan, oil pump and pressure relief valve, oil cooler, oil temperature sensor, air cleaner assembly, engine oil cooler hoses, oil filter adapter/housing, engine oil sending unit, motor mounts, water pump, water temperature sensor, temperature sending unit, thermostat and housing, fuel supply pump, fuel pump control unit, fuel tank sensor, vacuum pump, vacuum control valve, vacuum switch, positive crankcase ventilation valve, dipstick and tube, seals and gaskets, fasteners for the components listed above." Obviously I don't want to have to test out what is covered and what is not. But curious if EAS would know of any local ASE certified indy BMW mechanics that was able to get this covered for when the time comes that I have to do this. And what steps I would have to take... ie serial oil samples that show rising lead levels? or do I have to pay to drop the oil pan and if the bearings are indeed prematurely worn then it is covered... |
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08-23-2013, 12:52 PM | #34 | |
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08-23-2013, 01:01 PM | #35 | |
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08-23-2013, 01:22 PM | #36 | ||||||||
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As an added precaution the oil filter was cut open and oil pan was thoroughly cleaned to ensure no particles were left behind. We also inspected the oil pump nuts, as it was a common issue backing out on S52 engines back in the day. For those in the Southern California area, we will now be offering this service on both S65 and S85 engines. Quote:
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08-23-2013, 01:23 PM | #37 | |
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08-23-2013, 01:29 PM | #38 |
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I guess to clarify... least out of pocket is to let the engine blow while under warranty so warranty replaces engine... but once out of warranty cheapest route is to replace the rod bearings
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08-23-2013, 01:57 PM | #39 |
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Well if you could talk the shop into pulling the bearings and then look at them and agree they should be replaced then could they go back and just file a claim for all the work. Understanding that if the bearings show no abnormal wear then you will be paying for the wasted time.
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08-23-2013, 03:34 PM | #40 |
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I think best course of action is for me to just stop looking at any rod bearing threads.
I only have 50,000 miles on the car, it's running great, I have a warranty. I'll get the bearings looked at before the warranty goes out which is 50,000 or 70,000 miles from now from what I remember. Maybe by then it will be so prevalent that BMWNA will have a fix or response for this issue. Or maybe if any of the big tuning or racing teams that have NDA's with BMW will expire by then and more information will come out as far as how to prevent this from happening |
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08-23-2013, 03:44 PM | #41 | |
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On another note, I need a beer. |
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08-23-2013, 05:16 PM | #42 |
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It doesn't concern you that just about every S65/85 (share the same bearings and journal sizes) motor tear down for one reason or another, has shown worn bearings, and some extremely worn?
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08-23-2013, 05:45 PM | #43 | |
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While there may be alot of motors with the issue you just cannot assume that. We are on the internet, everything that happens on a forum is magnified. It's kinda like the SMG on the e46M3, before i bought mine if I googled SMG all i would get is horror stories. It was unbelievable. I still ended up buying it without a day of warranty. And that bad boy never skipped a beat. And even the new owner hasn't had any issues. Although the timing chain blew. |
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08-23-2013, 07:02 PM | #44 |
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Tom, can you give us the estimated cost (including bearings)?
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