So I've cross-shopped a ton of M3 competitors lately...

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Cool. That's what I thought too. M3 > S4 > 335. But I really liked the S4. In the end, I spent about 5K more on the M3 but the free maintenance and slightly better resale kinda make up for some of that. Thanks for the 411.

WOW only 5 k more? S4 starting price here in Canada is 51k and M3 coupe is 71k.

I took the BASE S4 (which comes with a LOT of options and nothing like the base A4) with 4 options. S-tronic, 19 inch wheels, sport diff and Alcantara (? the magma red two tone interior leather).

Ended up paying 56k transport + Prep included. (Canadian) BTW I did notice the canadian base model comes with more features than the US base from reading teh Audi forums. ie... Base in Canada has memory seats, mute control on the steering and some other small options.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

WOW only 5 k more? S4 starting price here in Canada is 51k and M3 coupe is 71k.

I took the BASE S4 (which comes with a LOT of options and nothing like the base A4) with 4 options. S-tronic, 19 inch wheels, sport diff and Alcantara (? the magma red two tone interior leather).

Ended up paying 56k transport + Prep included. (Canadian) BTW I did notice the canadian base model comes with more features than the US base from reading teh Audi forums. ie... Base in Canada has memory seats, mute control on the steering and some other small options.

Yeah I had an S4 on order with $54.5K MSRP, sale price of $52K. My stripper M3 sedan was a little over $60K MSRP... got it for a hair under $57K. But the financing was better, too, so I put out a little less $. Granted, the S4 had FAR more toys, but really, I did the math, and the M3 actually made more sense. Sometimes I wish I had the nav and premium sound and all that, but life is about compromises, right?

[chmura]

Not checking out the 2011 Subaru STi?

I'm seriously thinking about purchasing the hatch version. Does not get anymore practical then that. Some people love them or hate the looks.

[EarthShaker1]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

I thought it might be helpful for people like me who are contemplating purchasing an M3 or perhaps one of these other cars. Following are MY OPINIONS only, so no need for hurt feelings.

Background: 36 yo male. I'm not loyal to any brand, foreign or domestic. My car history includes: 94 Mazda RX-7, Audi A4 1.8T, Toyota Supra Turbo, BMW 335i Coupe, Lancer Evolution 8. What I look for in a car is the total package: "fun to drive" factor trumps straight-line speed. Comfort and daily-drivability are extremely important.

I stopped reading when I saw this line because I knew that your reviews would end right here. You need an M3.

[graider]

not sure about your lifestyle. but for me, it is used constantly. if not my kids, then friend, nephew, parents. almost 2-3 times a week.

seems like you never gonna use the back seats, i think black/black c6 z06 would fit you the best. huge mod potential, brute force, raw, look bad ass, sound bad ass, cheap to maintain, etc....

if not, then m3.

i never really warmup to the look of the cayman although i know it is pretty good looking to some people and handle very good. but i would pick the z06/m3 way before I even consider the cayman. maybe it is too small like a compact car and I just don't feel right in it especially consider the size of vehicle around you on the highway today.

Originally Posted by DefBringer

I'm assuming you're talking about Audi and Mercedes.

I don't consider anything coming out of Ingolstadt to be interesting. 4000 lb, understeering cars is not my bag and I cannot afford an R8.

Mercedes does not offer a C63 (or any car, as far as I know) that does not use a torque converter. I refuse to drive slushboxes.

The CTS-V is so hideous in my eyes I could not possibly consider it.

Just curious, how often did you put people in the backseat of your M3? When I had my 335 Coupe I used the back seats exactly ZERO times.

People with 911's and 3-series BMW's who harp on about how nice it is to have a rear seat are being disingenuous. Unless you're carting around extremely small children, those seats are completely worthless.

[adc]

I agree that the M3's drivetrain and suspension are so refined that you don't realize how fast you are going. For many people, that makes it not very exciting.

However - the M3 comes alive at 9/10ths and will thrill you well beyond that point. Really push it and the magic will be very apparent.

Better yet, push it in the rain and it will blow your mind.

[Nautik]

Originally Posted by DefBringer

Through USAA I got quotes on all the vehicles in question. It was interesting to see that the cost to insure these vehicles from most to least expensive: ($250 deductible, full coverage)

M3 - 123
2010 Corvette GS - 119
2008 Corvette Z06 - 117
2011 Mustang GT - 90 something
Evo X - 86

That's just with my insurance company, though. Not sure how yours is.

Interestingly enough, I also looked at insurance for a 2003 911 Turbo. $187 a month!! That killed any chance I was going to consider that car...

Good topic! I am in the same boat but leaning towards the M3 because I love my E46 so much. Really only other car I am seriously considering is a Z06 but I am in love with the DCT though as a DD.

When you do figure out what you want, make sure you check with some other insurance companies. I had USAA too and found out Geico would give me the exact same coverage on my M3 for 250 dollars less per 6 months! I was pissed at USAA, 50 dollars I could understand but not 250 dollars difference. I have a clean driving record too, never had a moving violation (knock on wood).

USAA also screwed me over the one time I had to file a claim with them (stolen car, and they beat me to death over the value).

[Dave07997S]

If you are looking for a DD take it from someone who jus got out of a 2007 997S, don't get it. It sits way low even in OEM form and it has very little practicality, this may not be that important to you since I see you are looking at a Cayman as well (even less practical than a 997). The 997 has a wonderfully wide powerband but to be honest once the M3 is in the powerband I feel it is quicker. The 997S gets the advantage just due to the holeshot its going to get off of you off the line. The rear engined, steamroller tire with light front end for good weight transfer to rear wheels, just leaves most cars in the dust off the line. The M3 if it could hook better would IMHO take a 997S, my 997S had X51 headers, AWE 200cpi cats and Borla cans and I feel my M3 would give it a good run for the money. Of the list you mentioned it would be a Mustang or M3 for me..I chose the M3.

Dave

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

If you are looking for a DD take it from someone who jus got out of a 2007 997S, don't get it. It sits way low even in OEM form and it has very little practicality, this may not be that important to you since I see you are looking at a Cayman as well (even less practical than a 997). The 997 has a wonderfully wide powerband but to be honest once the M3 is in the powerband I feel it is quicker. The 997S gets the advantage just due to the holeshot its going to get off of you off the line. The rear engined, steamroller tire with light front end for good weight transfer to rear wheels, just leaves most cars in the dust off the line. The M3 if it could hook better would IMHO take a 997S, my 997S had X51 headers, AWE 200cpi cats and Borla cans and I feel my M3 would give it a good run for the money. Of the list you mentioned it would be a Mustang or M3 for me..I chose the M3.

Dave

Dave - sounds like we're in a similar situation. I just traded my 2008 C2S in for an '11 M3 coupe. I agree with your comments re: the 911. I loved driving it, but it was FAR less practical. The rear seats did it in for me. I thought the 911 was much more rewarding and exciting to drive at the limits, but the M3 feels every bit as fast, if not faster. The history of 911's and their racing pedigree make them so appealing to me, but in the end I just wanted more practicality.

To the OP - I don't know how you can say the Mustang 5.0 had the "best engine in the group." I find the M3 and Vette engines much more impressive and, in the M3's case, more special (not many V8s out there that can rev past 8k RPMs). No doubt, the 5.0 appears to be a great motor, but take another look at what you're comparing it against.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Brosef

Dave - sounds like we're in a similar situation. I just traded my 2008 C2S in for an '11 M3 coupe. I agree with your comments re: the 911. I loved driving it, but it was FAR less practical. The rear seats did it in for me. I thought the 911 was much more rewarding and exciting to drive at the limits, but the M3 feels every bit as fast, if not faster. The history of 911's and their racing pedigree make them so appealing to me, but in the end I just wanted more practicality.

To the OP - I don't know how you can say the Mustang 5.0 had the "best engine in the group." I find the M3 and Vette engines much more impressive and, in the M3's case, more special (not many V8s out there that can rev past 8k RPMs). No doubt, the 5.0 appears to be a great motor, but take another look at what you're comparing it against.

You need to go drive a 5.0L Mustang. The motor is seemless and likes to rev yet it still has decent torque.

I agree though the S65 powerplant is more sophisticated due its very high revving capability, but that doesn't mean te 5.0L motor is not high tech. It gets almost the same hp yet gets much better fuel economy.

The Vette powerplant to me is archaic, although it is the limit of what 2v per cylinder can accomplish. However at over 6L and just over 400hp doesn't seem that impressive to me.

Dave

[graider]

it is very encouraging to hear positive/honest opinions about the new m3 from 911 s owners.

[adc]

Originally Posted by shift@red

^^except those guys are coming out of 5 year old 911s. The 997.2 S is a different story (new always is) and why a lot of people in m3s and gtrs are moving to them. its the same thing as always...no need for practicality the 911S is a more rewarding car to drive and faster in any way.

My E90 came out under $55k out the door - at that price I would struggle to find a good 997.1S. A 997.2S would be far more expensive.

Plus as far as practical aspects are concerned, neither could make it up my driveway - and I'd also have some concerns about winter driving.

[graider]

Originally Posted by shift@red

^^except those guys are coming out of 5 year old 911s. The 997.2 S is a different story (new always is) and why a lot of people in m3s and gtrs are moving to them. its the same thing as always...no need for practicality the 911S is a more rewarding car to drive and faster in any way.

so i guess next m3 model will win back the guys from the current 997.2 911 s?

i think the 997.2 s is 3 years newer, so that is to be expected.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

You need to go drive a 5.0L Mustang. The motor is seemless and likes to rev yet it still has decent torque.

I agree though the S65 powerplant is more sophisticated due its very high revving capability, but that doesn't mean te 5.0L motor is not high tech. It gets almost the same hp yet gets much better fuel economy.

The Vette powerplant to me is archaic, although it is the limit of what 2v per cylinder can accomplish. However at over 6L and just over 400hp doesn't seem that impressive to me.

Dave

using transitive logic, if you're gonna claim the 5.0L motor is "high tech" because it gets good gas mileage, then you would have to say the same about the vette as it gets quite impressive mileage on the highway as well. granted, they're different cars and the vette is lighter.

[BMWMFAN27]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

- Cayman S is a great car but felt somewhat anemic compared to an e9X M3. However, it was very balanced and the fit and finish was beyond excellent.

- Corvettes are beasts. Having said that, they are not close to being as refined as an M3. Not the engine, transmission, suspension and obviously not the interior. However, they look cool, handle great and are a great value.

- You are too old for an EVO.

- The new Mustang is promising and a great value. Performance numbers are on par with an M3 it seems but I am sure that the overall fit and finish is not.

I would recommend a 2011 M3 with ZCP and DCT. You will get world class performance, excellent fit an finish and the level of exclusivity that you will not get with an EVO, Mustang or Corvette.

Porsche is an excellent option, but if power is what you crave, stick to the 911S or above. Having said that, all of the Porsches I have ever driven have excellent build quality, handling and overall balance. The new Spyder is to die for but lacks power.

-SZ

+1 except I thought the Boxster Spyder was fairly quick.

[Scoobe]

If your talking the M3 price range, let just say 55-70k, the M3 is in my top 4 coupes. I have the M3 Sedan but if I had been coupe shopping, I would probably be in a Cayman S. It feels light and sporty with great agility and quickness. Plus it has the Porsche refinement and material quality. In very close competition with that I would look seriously at the 2011 GT500 with the performance package. I have an 08 GT500 and love it. Raw brute power, nice but modest interior, cheap and easy to mod, and seldom ever see any around. I also love the Z06, beautiful car and definately unique and recognizable on the road, it's interior and huge nose feel is its only drawback, but fantastic street performance. And of course the M3, not because of performance or refinement or anything like that, but because what really sets the M3 apart is the ability to set it up on the fly. With EDC, DCT, and Mdrive you can set it up for a nice daily driver cruiser and with a quick flick of the M button you can dial it up for agressive performance driving. That is really what sets the M3 apart. In that price range, those would be the ones I would shop. Each has their own appeal and comes down to what you want out of the car. I personally like the Cayman S and 11' GT500 in that list the most, but thats just this month. I'd probably change my mind in a few months and would always have regrets for not getting one of the others, comes with the territory of making these decisions.

[Nawambo]

Very interesting indeed. You spoke to my situation, I'm 33 looking to buy a more focused fun sports car. I have a family hauler and an 06 STI (which I rally and track occassionally - won my class in rally last year ), but have been considering my next car within the next year.

My Contenders are:

M3: Obviously, a benchmark in this field, luxury, every day drivability, and performance to scare most normals. A true legend and my wife also likes it. She is a car nut in her own right.

Corvette GS: Absolutely love this car, and up until recently, I thought I made my decision. Not the best interior, but the look and the performance is incredible. Particularly, that I would like to get more serious about tracking and autocrossing.

Lotus Exige S: I hang out with the Lotus gang a lot, great folks, real hardcore enthusiasts, and I love the looks, the handling, but worry about its reliability and fragility.

Mustang Boss 302: As of earlier this week, this other legend came into my world, love the performance, the look, and everything Ford has been trying to do. Will have to seriously study it and consider it.

So, who knows where I'll end up, but those are my top 4. The Cayman S in the DC area are like Camry's everyone has one, and the performance levels aren't as crisp as these guys. I'm also intrigued by the CTS-V coupe, but worry about Caddy's reliability.

[elh0102]

Originally Posted by Nawambo

The Cayman S in the DC area are like Camry's everyone has one, and the performance levels aren't as crisp as these guys. I'm also intrigued by the CTS-V coupe, but worry about Caddy's reliability.

Well, maybe there's a reason you see so many Cayman S cars. I've owned several M3s (currently an '11 coupe), 997S, Cayman S, 996 GT3, couple of ZO6s. The Cayman is without doubt the best handling car among them, and now that the power has been bumped a bit, and limited slip is an option, it's only better. The Vette is the best value, and a great track car. It is the best teacher of the bunch, because it demands more finesse from the driver. If you're looking at BMW and Porsche, I wouldn't worry about the Caddy's reliability!

[grizzy727]

I just turned in my m5 and had a e46 m3 and still own a 911.
I test drove mustang gt and thot it was big and sloppy and clutch felt the same as it did 10+ years ago.
I was able to drive a CTS-V for a week and that car is a monster - but more aimed at M5 crowd.
My friend has z06 and car is great but for me not really a DD.
Ive thought about EVO or STI but i think im too old for that crowd (36)
S4 was nice DCG was kewl like the DCT
I also test drove mini cooper S, Rover sport, jeep wrangler unlimited, X5 3.5 and 5.0 as well
I still like the m3 as its a solid all around great car.
So for now I drive the 911 and wait until bad weather to get another car/truck

Mike

[Nawambo]

Originally Posted by shift@red

People will always love to talk about what they have no experience with. I remember you from Cayman Club(planet 9 now right?) and I agree with you. Saying a cayman S isnt as 'crisp' to anyone who knows anything or has owned (like you and I have) or really gotten to experience loses credability considering it will run circles around anything in its price range and will do 0-100 in ~10.5 seconds and lays down some serious track times and is incredible to the point where its almost unfair to compare other cars handling/dynamics to it while being built better than all but the other Porsches and DD'able if you dont require space for too much.

Your right friend, I have not driven the Cayman S, I was basing that statement on everything I have read and researched, from accelleration, to handling, to varied track time reports. I know the Cayman gets a lot of props from the Lotus crowd too.

My statement ultimately was that based on my research, it's not necessarily the car for me, but no worries for others who own them, I can respect that.

[DefBringer]

Originally Posted by Brosef

using transitive logic, if you're gonna claim the 5.0L motor is "high tech" because it gets good gas mileage, then you would have to say the same about the vette as it gets quite impressive mileage on the highway as well. granted, they're different cars and the vette is lighter.

I think it is important to distinguish between the two engines (LS7 vs. 5.0 GT engine, sorry don't know the engine code) not only when it comes to numbers but also the way the engines "feel".

The Corvette gets good gas mileage as a virtue of its low weight. Keep in mind we're talking about a car that is a good 300lbs lighter than either the Mustang or M3.

Both the Mustang and Corvette's engines provide clearly superior HP/Torque than the BMW engine. However, they remain quite a bit different in the way they feel. Like I said earlier, the LS* engines are absolutely brutally powerful but they certainly do not feel refined. There is a noticeable vibration in the cabin at idle. When under load, the engine seems more at ease but it certainly does not like to rev as much as the Mustang engine. The 5.0 just loves to be revved and it has a much more sophisticated feel to it, I would argue that it is only slightly less smooth than the M3....most likely imperceptible to most people.

I do feel it is important to point out that even for a guy like me who is anal about cabin noise/vibration, the LS7 was well within my boundaries of what is acceptable. If you're going for power and nothing else, the LS3/LS7 are unquestionably the best engines put into a motorcar short of exotics.

[DefBringer]

OP here - update to my original post.

I went and sat in a 2008 Cayman today. They didn't have an S on hand to drive and there were no salespeople to be found so I will be going back on Saturday to actually test drive it and hope it gives a reasonable impression of what a Cayman S generally feels like.

I will have to be honest, I was somewhat disappointed with the limited amount of space in the Cayman. I'm not a giant by any means (6'2") but I found myself wishing that I could push that seat back another inch or so. The seat position is extremely vertical. Now, I am by no means one of those guys who likes to drive around with the seat cranked way back, but I was sitting almost entirely upright in the Cayman. That said, there is a huge amount of headroom - I could easily have worn a helmet.

Nearly as troubling was the claustrophobia. Things are a little cramped in there, and it reminded me a lot of my 350Z interior in terms of space. The Corvette, in comparison, has much more breathing space inside. Speaking of the Corvette, the Cayman has a very similar "feel" to it sitting in the car - we are quite squarely in the "sports car" realm here. The seating position is absolutely on the floor and the only thing you can see out the front are the two bulges over the front wheels.

But, I did fall in love with the way things were laid out. Lack of any true cupholders sucks (there are two that are barely wide enough to hold a water bottle), but the quality of the interior is just miles away nicer than the Corvette or 350Z.

My biggest mistake of the day was sitting myself in the '08 911 Carrera next to the Cayman. Let's just say that if the 911 drives half as nice as looks and feels on the inside, I'm going to have to buy one. Much spacier, tons more legroom, a dramatic increase in interior quality. I would say it is similar to a 1 series vs 3 series interior.

After sitting in the 911, I am starting to wonder if I need to be targeting a 911 Carrera base instead of the Cayman S. I'm always worried about buying base model cars, though.

I'll make another update after I drive the Cayman (and possibly) base Carrera on Saturday.