M-DCT / M-DKG poll - your thoughts after the new information

[BevoRules]

considering what we heard last week that there is going to be a limited supply of the DKGs in america, i just hope all my fellow americans get the traditional manual so that i'm assured that the supply of DKGs is available for me to get it.

[///MArdor]

There seems to be a lot of stress BMWNA is creating with the new M. I sure hope I get the M-DCT (M-DKG)!

Poll purposes: I am a convert or a sell out to some of our hardcore 6MTers!

[jilTed]

I was seriously considering the MT but now after driving a manual G35 I am rethinking...not that its a apples to apples comp. I guess I just dont like shifting 1st and 2nd gears...

[devo]

Originally Posted by BevoRules

considering what we heard last week that there is going to be a limited supply of the DKGs in america, i just hope all my fellow americans get the traditional manual so that i'm assured that the supply of DKGs is available for me to get it.

There is, reportedly, only a limited supply from March through June 2008. After that they should be readily available.

[drvai]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Every major manufacturer will have them in < 2 years. They will replace most automatics and many manuals.

I don't think will happen that soon.... Electronic manuals are still too young, and the only really good ones are the VW's DSG and Ferrari's. Most other makers have had problems with them, including Alfa Romeo, the PSA group, Aston Martin,etc.... BMW gear box was also criticized. I never drove the old M3 with SMG, but in the M5 is far from perfect, specially in auto mode. So, for someone who is not looking for the ultimate performance (most of car buyers), a auto will be the choice and that's why it will be offered. The 335 is an example...

MB doesn't even offer one. So in the future, maybe autos are do good that a electronic manual won't even be necessary.

Remember that DSG's are expensive to produce and less reliable Vs a manual or normal auto.

The bottom line is that predicting that the SMG will be great is impossible. They can say a lot of things on paper, but the truth will be seen when the first units arrive and are tested. Now, the people that liked the old SMG probably won't have problems with the new one.... unless there is a production failure.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by drvai

I don't think will happen that soon.... Electronic manuals are still too young, and the only really good ones are the VW's DSG and Ferrari's. Most other makers have had problems with them, including Alfa Romeo, the PSA group, Aston Martin,etc.... BMW gear box was also criticized. I never drove the old M3 with SMG, but in the M5 is far from perfect, specially in auto mode. So, for someone who is not looking for the ultimate performance (most of car buyers), a auto will be the choice and that's why it will be offered. The 335 is an example...

MB doesn't even offer one. So in the future, maybe autos are do good that a electronic manual won't even be necessary.

Remember that DSG's are expensive to produce and less reliable Vs a manual or normal auto.

The bottom line is that predicting that the SMG will be great is impossible. They can say a lot of things on paper, but the truth will be seen when the first units arrive and are tested. Now, the people that liked the old SMG probably won't have problems with the new one.... unless there is a production failure.

There is some speculation on my behalf but it is informed/educated speculation. I actually call that a theory.

First comparing SMG vs. DCT is like comparing apples and oranges. Get your terminology straight. They are such different beasts. A DCT/DSG with decent software is cleary better than an SMG in both automatic and manual modes. Have you read the gushing by all the journalists on every DSG/DCT they have tested? Correct me if I am wrong but the only true DCTs are Bugatti and VW/Audi with Mitsubishi, BMW and Nissan joining the ranks soon. I'm sure Porsche is not far behind either. Now think about the flexibility. Change the software, change the gear lever and you have a very efficient, low loss DCT that looks and feels like a true automatic - except more fuel efficient, lighter, less parasitic losses, etc. There are enormous pressure for OEMs to switch from automatics to DCTs.

DCT/DSG are not epxensive to produce, they are expensive to produce in small quantities just like any manufactured product. Sure even in high volumes they will cost more than a simple 6MT but less than an automatic for sure - those are so complex. They are lighter than ATs as well.

The last piece of evidence, and it is strong, is the forecasts from the transmission providers about expected volumes of DCTs/DSGs that will be sold. They are predicting BILLIONS of dollars of these babies. The reasons are simple:

-Good cost (compared to automatic)
-Improved efficiency over AT and MT
-Simple to customize/configure with software only
-Replaces AT and SMG and (MT for sporty applications and for early adopters)

I'd suggest you study up on the automotive news, press releases and this technology before you form your opinions.

Like I said, very widespread in a couple years begining with vehicles targeting performance or economy.

[apw2607]

I had the manual transmission on order, scheduled for production next week .. but after reading about the M-DKG and its performance I pulled the plug on it. I'll now wait for the M-DKG to be available ...

[SS32]

Unless I have a car that is a dedicated track car, I'll never own any sort of "flappy paddle gearbox". It would be great on the track, but I could see myself getting bored with it very fast on the street. I just feel like it's one step closer to an automatic transmission. Y'all can keep that extra gear and extra clutch, I'll stick with the 6 speed.

[OzStriker]

Originally Posted by cowmoo32

Unless I have a car that is a dedicated track car, I'll never own any sort of "flappy paddle gearbox". It would be great on the track, but I could see myself getting bored with it very fast on the street. I just feel like it's one step closer to an automatic transmission. Y'all can keep that extra gear and extra clutch, I'll stick with the 6 speed.

+1

[Hans Delbruck]

I answered "test drive first." Adding up all the options I want, my M3 would be a hair under $70K, before taxes. That is making me re-think it since I don't want a stripped car. There are some other exciting cars in the price range, coming soon from BMW, and that has taken my attention off of the M3. BMW just patented both "M10" and "555" .... there are spy shots floating around... I know, if I keep waiting for the next best thing, I'll never have a car. But that's the thing... I don't really need another car right now. And a Twin Turbo V10 or Twin Turbo V8 5 series sounds very enticing to me. Can you imagine the power?

Maybe I just prefer shopping to buying.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

There are some other exciting cars in the price range, coming soon from BMW, and that has taken my attention off of the M3. BMW just patented both "M10" and "555" .... there are spy shots floating around... I know, if I keep waiting for the next best thing, I'll never have a car. But that's the thing... I don't really need another car right now. And a Twin Turbo V10 or Twin Turbo V8 5 series sounds very enticing to me. Can you imagine the power?

You sure have vision Hans Delbruck. I'll give you that much.

[Romo]

I`m surprised how many people do NOT want a first test drive.

What do we know;

1 the 6 MT is a technical perfect system ( test drove it my self)
2 the M-DCT is a technical perfect system

Now the question must be; wich off the 2 transmissions will suit me the best?

This can only be answered by making a test drive, off course with both.


It is not what you know, it`s what you can prove.....................................

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Romo

I`m surprised how many people do NOT want a first test drive.

What do we know;

1 the 6 MT is a technical perfect system ( test drove it my self)
2 the M-DCT is a technical perfect system

Now the question must be; wich off the 2 transmissions will suit me the best?

This can only be answered by making a test drive, off course with both.


It is not what you know, it`s what you can prove.....................................

2 brief comments:

1. There has been both praise and criticism of the throw and feel of the new 6MT box in the M3. Some have even called it rubbery.

2. If you have driven an SMG M3 or M5 or even a VW/Audi with a dual clutch you should have a wonderful idea what DCT will be like. This is certainly not a great leap of faith here.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2. If you have driven an SMG M3 or M5 or even a VW/Audi with a dual clutch you should have a wonderful idea what DCT will be like. This is certainly not a great leap of faith here.

Have you done this? If so, what are your impressions? I plan to walk into a VW dealership pretty soon, and do it.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2 brief comments:



2. If you have driven an SMG M3 or M5 or even a VW/Audi with a dual clutch you should have a wonderful idea what DCT will be like. This is certainly not a great leap of faith here.

That why I am waiting as my wife had a DSG GTI and I used it for 1 track day and I was not that impressed.However on the street was a different story in normal driving.Once I drive and play with a M-DCT then I will make a rational decision about replacing my 6 speed car which I will have at the end of March.The info looks great on it,but I have been let down too many times by the hype of new technology that does not deliver in the real world

[kishg]

Originally Posted by cowmoo32

Unless I have a car that is a dedicated track car, I'll never own any sort of "flappy paddle gearbox". It would be great on the track, but I could see myself getting bored with it very fast on the street. I just feel like it's one step closer to an automatic transmission. Y'all can keep that extra gear and extra clutch, I'll stick with the 6 speed.

+10

[masmole]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2 brief comments:

1. There has been both praise and criticism of the throw and feel of the new 6MT box in the M3. Some have even called it rubbery.

Yes, this one of the smaller reasons that has made me defect to the M-DKG camp. I thought the E46 M3 and the E39 M5's shifters were a little rubbery and vague. My RS4's shifter feels very smooth yet mechanical and precise and I love it. Same with my old Acura, great shifter. I've been spoiled and not sure if I can live with anything less.

2. If you have driven an SMG M3 or M5 or even a VW/Audi with a dual clutch you should have a wonderful idea what DCT will be like. This is certainly not a great leap of faith here.

I loved the M5's SMG III at the track and normal driving on the road (most of the time, as long as I keep it manual mode). The only thing I didn't like about it was the low-speed sloppiness and imprecision as if someone else was working the clutch and doing a bad job of it during traffic and stop-and-go in the city. Also, automatic mode in the SMG III was unbearably useless but luckily manual mode was enjoyable enough. M-DKG sounds like it takes the only drawbacks that the SMG III had and flushes it all down the toilet. I'm just hoping that it delivers as advertised.

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2 brief comments:

1. There has been both praise and criticism of the throw and feel of the new 6MT box in the M3. Some have even called it rubbery.

Not an issue for me. Easily fixed with an SSK, in fact I have assumed from day 1 that I will install one.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2 brief comments:

1. There has been both praise and criticism of the throw and feel of the new 6MT box in the M3. Some have even called it rubbery.

2. If you have driven an SMG M3 or M5 or even a VW/Audi with a dual clutch you should have a wonderful idea what DCT will be like. This is certainly not a great leap of faith here.

Thank you for the comments Swamp

Yes I`ve driven the SMG M3, but that is a fairly long time ago, so I feel obligated to do it once again

The testdrive with the 6 MT was just perfect, much, much better then my own. No rubbery what so ever

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by rvacha

Not an issue for me. Easily fixed with an SSK, in fact I have assumed from day 1 that I will install one.

The ACS SSK in my E46 improved the shift action, but it's still much notchier than I'd like.