Supercharged e90 M3 Failure

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

I am not being made to talk to you but thank you for caring.

Until you prove that our Supercharger caused your engine to fail nothing you say holds and weight.

Its obvious you just want to bash us so there will be no winner here.

Good luck

Does your employer know you are speaking on their behalf concerning matters that you were not involved in?

No one is trying to bash you personally but you have gotten on here and defended your company in matters that you only know about 3rd hand. It doesn't make sense to me that you would stake your personal as well as your company's reputation over a situation that you weren't even involved in.

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Does your employer know you are speaking on their behalf concerning matters that you were not involved in?

No one is trying to bash you personally but you have gotten on here and defended your company in matters that you only know about 3rd hand. It doesn't make sense to me that you would stake your personal as well as your company's reputation over a situation that you weren't even involved in.

Are you serious ? Give it a break.

Call me if you have any further questions we can talk privately.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Are you serious ? Give it a break.

Call me if you have any further questions we can talk privately.

You don't find it odd that someone with no first hand information about the situation is the one commenting with so-called facts? Think about it for a second instead of getting defensive over it. I have nothing to gain in all of this. I don't know the OP and I don't know you.

[SflBimmer8484]

If it involved someone at active you can bet I asked them for their side of the story.

We have no reason to lie if we caused the engine to fail we have no problem fixing it and paying 100% of the bill
But that is not the case

I do find it odd however that I have responded to more questions of yours than anyone else's since this thread has started.

[SflBimmer8484]

We have nothing to hide.

The END.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

Maybe you have nothing to hide, none of us will ever know, but if that's the case just say you're working to address the issue with the customer and leave it at that. Don't argue with people, back and forth. You're doing your company no favors. All this shows me is that if I buy your product and something goes wrong, I won't be dealing with professionals to get it fixed.

+1

OP Called me and arrangements for sending the cable are in the works. Seemed like a nice guy with genuine concerns.

[US///M3]

Maybe the OP thought AA was going to replace his blown engine.

You supercharge your engine,you have an engine failure,regardless of what caused it,you're on your own.
I thought that was common knowledge.

[BH_Fanaticos77]

Great tread, I just spent hours reading it from the beginning. there was one question that was raised but no one tried to answer it.

Mike, since you seem to know a lot about the freeze data, would you know why do we have transmission input at 8004 rpm when engine speed was at this 8705 rpm event. Would we see a greater transmission input since the energy during miss-shift would come from it?

Also, another number I'd like to know the meaning of is the speed gradient of 4937 rpm/s. would this be the rpm jump per second that engine experienced during the event?

thanks.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by US///M3

Maybe the OP thought AA was going to replace his blown engine.

You supercharge your engine,you have an engine failure,regardless of what caused it,you're on your own.
I thought that was common knowledge.

I disagree with that.

To an extent it's like saying a company designs a product, makes a profit, and then doesn't have to support it.

If I bought a supercharger and the failure was caused by the supercharger or attributed to it some how through tuning, or whatever else - I would be seeking a replacement for sure.

Now if it was caused by user error, or something not related to the supercharger, then I agree you're on your own.

There's a reasonable expectation of support and an implied warranty, plus an expectation of dealing in good faith, depending on the circumstances at hand.

[ES_TRADER]

Op, Why not just lawyer up and go to court? Let the judge decide who's guilty. I don't think posting here on a public forum will do anything. It's like ping pong all day long. You need an unbiased 3rd party.

It's the "American" way of life, yes?

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I disagree with that.

To an extent it's like saying a company designs a product, makes a profit, and then doesn't have to support it.

If I bought a supercharger and the failure was caused by the supercharger or attributed to it some how through tuning, or whatever else - I would be seeking a replacement for sure.

Now if it was caused by user error, or something not related to the supercharger, then I agree you're on your own.

There's a reasonable expectation of support and an implied warranty, plus an expectation of dealing in good faith, depending on the circumstances at hand.

Hard to expect a replacement when the terms and conditions on the tuners website read as such:

This warranty is limited to repairs and/or replacement of the product or part found to be defective without charge. Active Autowerke reserves the right to refund the complete purchase price for the defective item and will not be held liable for losses or damages arising from the defect.
If a part or a component from an Active Autowerke product, system or kit is found to be defective, this warranty shall apply only to the defective part or component and shall not require Active Autowerke to repair, replace or refund the complete Active Autowerke product, system or kit.
Active Autowerke cannot accept freight costs of any returned merchandise to Active Autowerke for inspection and/or returns. A 20% handling charge for all returns may be applied.
Under the stipulations of this warranty, Active Autowerke will in no way be liable for exceeding the original purchase price of the defective product. This warranty does not include the cost of removal or reinstallation of the product. No person or representative is authorized to extend any warranty and/or liability (other than that which has been expressed herein) in connection with the sale of any Active Autowerke product.
Active Autowerke disclaims any and all liability for any implied warranties, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a specific purpose. Under no circumstances shall Active Autowerke be liable for any incidental, indirect, specific or consequential damages arising from purchaser's use of the product.

When you purchase a product from a vendor like AA that has terms and conditions clearly stating the warranty, you automatically accept those conditions as soon as you pay them. The only exception to this would be if there was another legally binding contract signed between the purchaser and the vendor clearly stating that they will cover you and that the new contract that was signed supersedes the warranty policy of the vendor.

I am not standing up for AA but there terms and conditions are clear and are legally binding.

Hard for the OP to argue with that!

Also since the OP is/was also an AA dealer, he should have been well aware of those terms and conditions.

[Edjay]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I disagree with that.

To an extent it's like saying a company designs a product, makes a profit, and then doesn't have to support it.

If I bought a supercharger and the failure was caused by the supercharger or attributed to it some how through tuning, or whatever else - I would be seeking a replacement for sure.

Now if it was caused by user error, or something not related to the supercharger, then I agree you're on your own.

There's a reasonable expectation of support and an implied warranty, plus an expectation of dealing in good faith, depending on the circumstances at hand.

I agree with this, but If AA set a rev limit at 8100 and they state and feel this is what is safe for their system. Then we have a recorded over rev, for what ever reason. shouldnt that be enough to void all or any warranty or obligation by AA since clearly the engine was rev pass its set safe limit?

I too asume that if I modify my car, 1 I will drive it hard, 2 whatever brakes, I dont expect any vendor to pay for it, unless they broke it. IE they forgot a bolt during instalation. I have seen motors blow on the dyno and the tuner are not held responsible.

[BLACK OPS]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Hard to expect a replacement when the terms and conditions on the tuners website read as such:

This warranty is limited to repairs and/or replacement of the product or part found to be defective without charge. Active Autowerke reserves the right to refund the complete purchase price for the defective item and will not be held liable for losses or damages arising from the defect.
If a part or a component from an Active Autowerke product, system or kit is found to be defective, this warranty shall apply only to the defective part or component and shall not require Active Autowerke to repair, replace or refund the complete Active Autowerke product, system or kit.
Active Autowerke cannot accept freight costs of any returned merchandise to Active Autowerke for inspection and/or returns. A 20% handling charge for all returns may be applied.
Under the stipulations of this warranty, Active Autowerke will in no way be liable for exceeding the original purchase price of the defective product. This warranty does not include the cost of removal or reinstallation of the product. No person or representative is authorized to extend any warranty and/or liability (other than that which has been expressed herein) in connection with the sale of any Active Autowerke product.
Active Autowerke disclaims any and all liability for any implied warranties, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a specific purpose. Under no circumstances shall Active Autowerke be liable for any incidental, indirect, specific or consequential damages arising from purchaser's use of the product.

When you purchase a product from a vendor like AA that has terms and conditions clearly stating the warranty, you automatically accept those conditions as soon as you pay them. The only exception to this would be if there was another legally binding contract signed between the purchaser and the vendor clearly stating that they will cover you and that the new contract that was signed supersedes the warranty policy of the vendor.

I am not standing up for AA but there terms and conditions are clear and are legally binding.

Hard for the OP to argue with that!

Also since the OP is/was also an AA dealer, he should have been well aware of those terms and conditions.

___________________

This says it all. No special contract created. AA refunded 100% of the cost of the SC even though this wasn't damaged, correct? Seems AA has done more than they needed to. After 1 year the debate as to who's at fault has lost some credibility since the vehicle wasn't completely and thoroughly evaluated and tested. We await more hard facts from the read by Mike and OP.

OP is upset because: 1)He feels he wasn't treated fairly as a customer and dealer. (BTW- never mix pleasure and business) 2) An employee who no longer works at the AA shop is being represented by a company and employee (Andrew) who did not directly work with him at that time. 3) He continues to refute a money shift but is not believed and his engine wasn't completely evaluated in person, only by picture. 4) He feels like he may not be the only person with AA SC that has had this problem and wants the community to be aware of this.

After Mike interprets the information obtained and is corroborated with the AA read then we can make the next step to causation. Ultimately as was stated by another post, it appears a 3rd party will need to run their own tests and draw conclusion.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by richpuer

Op, Why not just lawyer up and go to court? Let the judge decide who's guilty. I don't think posting here on a public forum will do anything. It's like ping pong all day long. You need an unbiased 3rd party.

It's the "American" way of life, yes?

I'd like to see that..if in fact he accepted a full refund for the SC and waited a year to cry wolf he'd be laughed out of court. Besides there is no way that the tuner could be held liable even if their product blew the engine... Their disclaimers absolve them of any liability..sorry but there isnt a legal leg to stand on here

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by BLACK OPS

___________________

This says it all. No special contract created. AA refunded 100% of the cost of the SC even though this wasn't damaged, correct? Seems AA has done more than they needed to. After 1 year the debate as to who's at fault has lost some credibility since the vehicle wasn't completely and thoroughly evaluated and tested. We await more hard facts from the read by Mike and OP.

OP is upset because: 1)He feels he wasn't treated fairly as a customer and dealer. (BTW- never mix pleasure and business) 2) An employee who no longer works at the AA shop is being represented by a company and employee (Andrew) who did not directly work with him at that time. 3) He continues to refute a money shift but is not believed and his engine wasn't completely evaluated in person, only by picture. 4) He feels like he may not be the only person with AA SC that has had this problem and wants the community to be aware of this.

After Mike interprets the information obtained and is corroborated with the AA read then we can make the next step to causation. Ultimately as was stated by another post, it appears a 3rd party will need to run their own tests and draw conclusion.

The suggester of the 3rd party was me! All the 3rd party will do now will give the OP closure. As far as the terms and conditions read, even if it was the kit's fault, AA is not responsible to cover the damages!

[BLACK OPS]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

The suggester of the 3rd party was me! All the 3rd party will do now will give the OP closure. As far as the terms and conditions read, even if it was the kit's fault, AA is not responsible to cover the damages!

_______________________

To clarify...."even if it was the kit's fault, AA is not responsible to cover the damages!", or if the 8700 did not correlate with a money shift, then yes, AA is NOT responsible for damages to the blown engine, EVEN IF it were directly related.

An unfortunate incident which can be compared to signing the consent or release form to the risk of injury or losing your life when you jump off a bridge on a bungee cord. You understand and waive the risks of injury and death from unforseen events which cannot be controlled but also including events such as breakage of the bungee cord and failure or breakage of instrumentation. Harsh reality but tough to argue when it's in ink and you have agreed to terms and conditions. The fact that the engine broke 2000 mi's or so after installation would nearly eliminate the possibility of error in installation of the kit.

[jpirelli]

Originally Posted by tightie

Leave it to a expert? Come on Benvo. Your a tuner now? Last time I checked you were just a file loader for PC and now PC can't do tunes in the states anymore.. Sounds like you just want a free read of a Active car.

Just saying buddy.

[akh23456]

The thing i don't get is Why did you still sell Active stuff after you think they blew your motor? Why did you wait so long to post it? Active bought their kit back from you when they determined it wasn't their fault and you agreed then. Why change your mind now and try to get more money by blackmailing them? Story doesn't add up.

[GOVCO]

So, after reading hundreds of posts about this issue, I am still perplexed as to why no one has asked the question.....

[wait for it....]

[wait for it....]

Who do you like in the AFC Championship tomorrow? Just saying, all this talk about blown motors...AND all these 'expert' opinionated people...surely someone can help me pick the winning team. Want to place a big bet and buy a SC. Oh, and even after all this, I would still buy a kit from AA. Shit happens all the time. Likelyhood of it happening again, probably not to high. Just saying. Can we not just wait and see how this turns out. I need the Cliff Notes for this thread.

[Darth One]

i lost track of the number of pissing matches in this thread

[alpine335i]

Originally Posted by Darth One

i lost track of the number of pissing matches in this thread

Why can't everyone just get along!

[Singletrack]

Here's my high level summary:

-Engine blew over a year ago, Jordan resolved the issue with AA then (buy back on kit; owner covers motor). No evidence released at that time suggesting root cause of failure. Now he is not satisfied with the deal and wants more money.
-He contacted them and threatened to take the issue to the boards.
-He has now STATED that the SC caused his motor to fail. His evidence is that the valves didn't contact the pistons (largely irrelevant on this motor) and that he "feels" that they could have been too aggressive with their tune. No proof, "feels". He also wants to know how many motors have failed with the AA kit.
-Oh he also admits to returning his car to stock and attempting to conceal the fact that he had a SC installed on the car and get the dealer to warranty the motor. But his defense is that someone, who he will not name at AA, told him to do this.
-AA has produced evidence from the shadow area of the ECU showing that Jordan over-reved the engine at a mileage after the car had the SC installed. Jordan denies ever doing this.

...there are other details I'm omitting, but that is the gist of it.

So in other words, Jordan has produced zilch to support his argument. There are laws for a reason - you can't just go around saying whatever the hell you want about people. Likewise, truth is an absolute defense. Unfortunately, Jordan has already admitted to being dishonest with the dealer, so there is really no way to trust anything he says. All the more reason why we actually need real facts. If I were AA personally, I would be speaking to an attorney/police about libel and blackmail.