ESS VT2-650 Engine Blowout/Bearing Failure at 20k miles

[baba louey]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Stop making these childish, condescending posts! Obviously BMW M knows how to design an engine, but since they have had a massive rod bearing recall in the past they may have some issues with their clearances on mains and rods!

If these engines spun to 7k they would probably be fine with 0.001" of clearance, but spinning 8.4k the hydrodynamic wedge of oil is not thick enough to prevent metal on metal contact in some instances. This boundary lubrication condition takes its toll on bearings over a period of time!

Sounds like clean oil is imperative if one wants to lessen the risk of engine failure here. Maybe this is why the viscosity range is so great in the recommended oil.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by Dashman

Interesting, so I don't feel so bad now about choosing not to redline the engine. The most I usually ever take it up to is about 7K.

Honestly I think people have been somewhat deluded to think its okay to drive this car to redline all day, everyday

You can definitely take the car to red line everyday. It's set redline is way below it's capability. As many are running 8600rpm redlines without issues.

[VCMpower]

Agree/ disagree. What a joke.

[Longwong]

If the problem was as simple as tolerances and metal on metal contact from too little oil getting in there than why are there so few failures? I don't believe it is the tight tolerances or this issue at all causing the failures and believe it has to be something else. Given most have no problems at all and its not like the majority of cars would not have this issue if the problem truly was the issue bmlvr suggested. Or what esle could it be?

[VCP]

flexing rods ends because of cost affective torque-to-yield rod bolts and maybe the rods them self too. we have had the s65s apart and the heads, crank and block all look amazing then the ugly duckling pops out the rods. euro spec s50 twin vanos had rod bolt failures is this what happening with the small amount of s65 that have pop just a thought ....

Originally Posted by Longwong

If the problem was as simple as tolerances and metal on metal contact from too little oil getting in there than why are there so few failures? I don't believe it is the tight tolerances or this issue at all causing the failures and believe it has to be something else. Given most have no problems at all and its not like the majority of cars would not have this issue if the problem truly was the issue bmlvr suggested. Or what esle could it be?

[Mo0pie]

Holy shiz.. Good luck brother. Hopefully nothing too serious.

[Jeff@autocouture]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

[playground]

Damn, that is nasty. One reason why not to boost

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Longwong

If the problem was as simple as tolerances and metal on metal contact from too little oil getting in there than why are there so few failures? I don't believe it is the tight tolerances or this issue at all causing the failures and believe it has to be something else. Given most have no problems at all and its not like the majority of cars would not have this issue if the problem truly was the issue bmlvr suggested. Or what esle could it be?

I have said many times in my posts that many engines will not have an issue due to the tight tolerances but some will........ Production variances do exist, and the handful of engines that may have a rod or main that is excessively tight can and will fail. If the tolerance chosen by BMW for this engine was a little larger, I guarantee there would be a whole lot less issues with the engines.

Originally Posted by VCMperformance

flexing rods ends because of cost affective torque-to-yield rod bolts and maybe the rods them self too. we have had the s65s apart and the heads, crank and block all look amazing then the ugly duckling pops out the rods. euro spec s50 twin vanos had rod bolt failures is this what happening with the small amount of s65 that have pop just a thought ....

That is a very valid point and I do agree....... One of the weakest links in the S65 is the rods and rod fasteners. If you look back a few posts, I mentioned that proper oil clearances and rods were necessary to address all of the S65's weaknesses. Also worth noting, if the rods are experiencing stretch on the big end of the rod the tight tolerance is also not your friend....... If the rods were fit looser a slightly ovaled big end may not seize and fail but could keep running.

[playground]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Read the entire thread...

I'm having trouble reading nearly 18 pages of replies.

[GIdriver]

Originally Posted by W///

If it's a huge worry for you, then do an oil analysis. Might give you a warning if you have bearing issues.

Yep, this is what I'm gonna do from now on with every oil change.

[s65e90]

this thread is a total fail.


18 pages of speculation and OP has changed the thread name a few times and no pictures at all or confrmation of what actually failed. Where are the pics?? Didn't this car go to Autocouture in NJ to be torn down?

[baba louey]

Originally Posted by s65e90

this thread is a total fail.


18 pages of speculation and OP has changed the thread name a few times and no pictures at all or confrmation of what actually failed. Where are the pics?? Didn't this car go to Autocouture in NJ to be torn down?

I believe he is off in Germany picking up his new M3. I don't believe this thread is a failure at all. I've learned a bunch and seen some interesting discussions.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by baba louey

I believe he is off in Germany picking up his new M3. I don't believe this thread is a failure at all. I've learned a bunch and seen some interesting discussions.

from everyone speculating with what went wrong? No teardown pics or confirmation that the car spun a bearing. Not to mention it's making @ 600 hp and looks like it kicked a rod out the block

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Good advice!



Please share your results once you get them!

Looks good! I'm happy with the results.

[baba louey]

Originally Posted by exmowner

Looks good! I'm happy with the results.

Thanks for posting the test results. Interesting stuff.

[s65e90]

almost at page 20; still no confirmation from OP what failed and no carnage pics.


From all the oil everywhere it would seem this car spun a bearing and kicked a rod out of the block. This may be a bearing issue but also could be a tuning issue. Speaking from experience as I have "windowed" maybe 3-4 blocks on cars from tuning issues (turbo cars).

OP we want more, we want more!

Too many people in here speculating and thinking they have all the answers

[mdosu]

...so the moral of the story:

1. get an oil analysis every oil change to detect excess metal deposits in oil. This shows signs of premature wear on internals.

2. if it breaks and all hell breaks loose, throw in the towel and buy a new car!

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by mdosu

...so the moral of the story:

1. get an oil analysis every oil change to detect excess metal deposits in oil. This shows signs of premature wear on internals.

2. if it breaks and all hell breaks loose, throw in the towel and buy a new car!

not really as this whole thread is still speculation.


Truth is no one has confirmed what happened to this car and there's no pictures either. So this is over 18 pages of speculation

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Of course, but there is some really great info in this thread. Since the OP has been gone for a while I don't think we'll get any answers for a while, or at all, but you can extract some good knowledge from this thread that can be helpful when contemplating modding your engine, or maintaining it.

yes but read my post a few up. I have personally blown up many cars from either spun bearings or other issues. Spun bearings can happen on a boosted car from a tuning issue. This could've been a multitude of things but from 18 pages of responses that seem to know, the sheep of M3 post now will not rev their cars over 5k or sell them fearing bearing faiures. OP needs to do his due diligence and finish the post he started that created all this interest. I thought ACM tore the car down. I'm sure it's not just sitting there. There should be pics of the carnage. Hell this could've been detonation that caused a rod to kick out the block, who knows. But a picture is worth 1000 words

[VCMpower]

There you have it people! What the vast majority will most likely see. Enjoy your M's.

Originally Posted by exmowner;

Looks good! I'm happy with the results.

[NikB316]

Well I've been MIA for a while but definitely another good reason to get that oil tested! I got my first test done about 5-6k miles ago and am doing an oil change right now. Will have it tested again at my next oil change as this one is at the dealership. I posted my results here and everything looked great just like the guy above! Here are my results again for anyone interested. Note that the 5,000 mile interval referenced was incorrect and after looking back at my papers it was right at 6,000 miles. Every 5-6k miles seems to be ideal from everyone I have spoken to. An oil change every two months for me

For those interested the AA Gen 1 Level 2 kit was put on approx 2-3k miles, I bought the car at approx 13k miles, AA Gen 2 Level 3 was put on approx 22k miles.

I'm just under 33k miles now so a good 30k supercharged miles and 10k "high power" miles