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02-07-2014, 08:25 AM | #331 | |
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The jury is out on downshift speed (GM has not commented to my knowledge) and that will matter as much or more in performance driving. The auto in the Z will be amazing, that I'm confident in. Whether it is "better" than the best DCT's is to be determined but my bet is it won't be for track use. For street use, maybe... |
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02-07-2014, 08:43 AM | #332 | |
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02-07-2014, 09:01 AM | #333 | |
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Also, in my experience, the braking zones are where good cars make up a lot of ground in time. The car not reacting well on downshifts is actually bothersome (to me anyway) in aggressive driving much more so than anything related to upshift speed. |
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02-07-2014, 09:16 AM | #334 | |
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I seriously doubt that. They didnt mention anything about downshift speed as far as i know as well, but dont forget, the whole package is still under development. Downshift speed is as important in racing conditions as upshift, so i am sure they will at least match that with dct or pdk. |
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02-07-2014, 09:40 AM | #335 | |
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I still dont understand how a torque converter can rev match. Does it go into neutral for 0.000001 seconds, blips and then engage again? I'm asking because i dont know. |
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02-07-2014, 09:41 AM | #336 | ||
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I drive a manual and the dct was a great experience. I just have doubts on an autoshitbox until it is proven. There are dct gtrs out there that handle 1000hp and whatever ridiculous amount of torque they put out under launch control for strictly drag racing so the it cant handle torque is a moot point. |
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02-07-2014, 09:45 AM | #337 | |
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and he never said the Z06 auto won't be good for track use. he just said it won't be as good as BMW's DCT or Porsche's PDK on track, but would be slightly better for everyday driving. I'm not sure how much time you've spent driving either the DCT or PDK, but there is absolutely nothing left to be desired in faster upshift speeds. it's absolutely instantaneous. and I am highly confident that the auto will not match the feeling of crisp directness that the DCT's provide. banging through gears in S6 on the DCT feels so good. that's why it successfully lured so many people away from manuals. |
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02-07-2014, 09:50 AM | #338 | ||
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02-07-2014, 12:00 PM | #339 | |
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If new Z06 comes with dct that we know, i would be very happy. But, if there will be only two choices, manual and their specifically designed 8 speed auto tranny, i would chose auto. Even if downshifts are slightly slower than DCT or PDK, it should still outperform manual on the track, as i dont think anyone can change gears manually as fast a the new auto transmission will. They said upshifts will be slightly faster than PDK. That should more than make up for slightly slower downshifts. |
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02-08-2014, 07:04 AM | #340 |
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Interior......don't think our ///M3's have this !
Check this out....
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02-08-2014, 12:38 PM | #343 |
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Great video and the man can drive the C7 for sure !
The big surprise is that it is also faster than the Carrera S ,and this is only the C7 with 460 HP ! What i want to say this threat is about the new Z06 with about 620 HP !!! Witch is 160 HP more...... So a Vette from this new generation(ZO6) with 620 HP and with a handling that is even better than the C7 is for me the new ...Ultimate driving machine ! To beat this car a car will be needed that costs the price of the Z06 x 5 ! I feel sorry that i live in Belgium because of the fiscale HP of the Vette it's now about 10,000 Euro's first time in traffic taxes ( $ 13,635 USD + yearly drivers taxes ! ) and without insurance ! Conclusion......... God bless America and that's for sure When i see now all the video's about the Corvette Z06 i start to think....and i don't like to say it, but i will and on the American way....the ///M BMW's along this car start to look... like pussy wagons !
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02-08-2014, 01:22 PM | #344 | |
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02-08-2014, 06:53 PM | #346 |
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I saw this post on corvette forum. Explains the difference between the new generation of auto tranny and DCT. I hope they dont mind this, that i am posting it here
"Slushboxes" are from the '50s when they had fluid couplers. Those were replaced by torque converters in the '60s, lockup torque converters in the '70s, pulse width modulated (PWM) lockup torque converters in the '90s, and the 2000s brought us multi-disc PWM lockup torque converters capable of transmitting the maximum power of high performance engines in lockup mode. The 6L80 torque converter goes into lockup in 2nd gear and I'm sure the 8L90 will too. The PWM feature "pulses" the lockup clutch hydraulic pressure to achieve as much as 80-100 RPM "slippage" between the input/output of the torque converter at low RPM cruise to dampen engine vibrations due to low frequency power pulses from individual piston power strokes. The modern day torque converter has nothing in common with the old "slushbox" fluid coupler...welcome to the 21st century. A DCT has two multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The 8L90 has multiple multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The same exact thing just different. There is no reason the 8L90 can't shift as fast as a DCT...they both use multi plate wet clutches and a hydraulic pump in conjunction with proportional "solenoid" valves that control the speed of the clutch engagement/shift. I like the term "torque converter MCT" for the 8L90...it has more than two clutches so DCT wouldn't be proper. Plus, more is better. Any standing start contest will be won handily by the 8L90 with the torque converter multiplying torque and letting the engine get up on top of its HP curve faster. They weigh about the same and efficiency will be about the same but the 8L90 will be smaller. The 8L90 will kick any DCT to the curb when it comes to drivability and you don't have to worry about the computer second guessing what you want to do. You also don't have to worry about being in the wrong gear all of a sudden since the DCT can only pre-select one gear...all gears are engaged all of the time in the 8L90. I think if people took the time to understand 21st century automatics, we wouldn't have so many naysayers. Hopefully there will be plenty of info at the reveal but it's the proverbial "you can lead a horse to water" all over again...you can't drown them because they breathe through their butt. Oh yeah, one more thing. For those who wonder, what is 8L90, its an 8 speed automatic transmission that will be used in c7 z06 Last edited by Groundpilot; 02-08-2014 at 08:29 PM.. |
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02-08-2014, 10:03 PM | #347 | |
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The lines are really blurring between high end automatics and DCTs from a performance perspective. Interestingly enough, they are entirely different beasts on the inside.
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02-08-2014, 10:22 PM | #348 | |
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02-09-2014, 12:05 AM | #349 | |
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E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | Last edited by swamp2; 02-09-2014 at 12:10 AM.. |
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02-09-2014, 09:36 AM | #350 | |
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For downshifting, pull the paddle here instead of there, and you're good to go. No? I figure around three laps into any given road course, and you've got it. No? Bruce |
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02-09-2014, 10:48 AM | #351 | |
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We had good discussion in this thread about manual vs modern auto transmission and DCT/PDK. They are all good in good hands. The real question is, which one is better, faster on the track driven in the same conditions by the same driver. That post that i found in corvette forum, was written by an engeneer, who knows whats up, and it looks like new 8 speed auto, that will be used in c7 z06, will function the same way but differently, and according to him, shift speed will be as good or even better than DCT, not to mention better driveability. |
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02-09-2014, 12:32 PM | #352 |
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Correct, they can... but they shouldn't have to
At the end of the day, as I've said, I'm very confident GM will get this transmission correct. Probably on the downshifts too. However, until cars are available and tested, it will be speculation either way IMO. I believe if GM wasn't confident they could make the auto everything they promised it will be then they wouldn't have offered it on the Z06. |
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