Custom Clevite Rod Bearings

0-60Motorsports · 03-03-2015, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

Seriously.

Everytime I see a new comment on this thread, I'm hoping to find out when the new bearings will be available, but lately it's been just the same old nonsense that's found in all the other threads even remotely bearing related.
.

+2

Leonardo629 · 03-03-2015, 11:27 AM

Is this another one of your imaginary scenarios or can you back the claim?

I'm sure a lot of us would like to see this video of your car pinging on Youtube

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Really?
This is you discussing your email exchange with Clevite (on another forum):
"So 10 emails later, we hashed it all out, and it all boiled down to detonation really could be a cause, but the pathology to get there would suggest the ECU wasn't doing its job. But yes, he [Clevite] acknowledged that long term, low level detonation could cause that exact type of bearing wear, but he suggested it could only happen if the ECU wasn't doing its job.

I know I can get my car to detonate at will...fill up with low octane fuel, drive a couple of hundred yards, load up the engine and listen to it ping.

Obioban · 03-03-2015, 11:49 AM

If it were knock, that would be extremely easy and cheap for BMW to address. Recall, ecu flash, done. That, alone, makes me think it's very unlikely to be knock related. They're paying out the ass for engine replacements, and losing tons of consumer confidence/good will.

e92zero · 03-03-2015, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obioban

If it were knock, that would be extremely easy and cheap for BMW to address. Recall, ecu flash, done. That, alone, makes me think it's very unlikely to be knock related. They're paying out the ass for engine replacements, and losing tons of consumer confidence/good will.

^+1.

I don't want to take side but the way I see it is it doesn't hurt any of us to have more options on the choice of bearings when we are doing the 'preventive' maintenance. No one is pointing a gun to anybody to force them to buy these, right?

Thank you to the few who put in the effort to bring this to market. Any update on the target date?

s85e90 · 03-03-2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obioban

If it were knock, that would be extremely easy and cheap for BMW to address. Recall, ecu flash, done. That, alone, makes me think it's very unlikely to be knock related. They're paying out the ass for engine replacements, and losing tons of consumer confidence/good will.

Reading this makes me think you don't understand how an ecu works. All cars experience knock sums to a degree. But it shouldn't be audible the car should pull timing right away. We're saying it may not be doing it fast enough.

Obioban · 03-03-2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s85e90

Reading this makes me think you don't understand how an ecu works. All cars experience knock sums to a degree. But it shouldn't be audible the car should pull timing right away. We're saying it may not be doing it fast enough.

They could tweak the sensitivity or the targets via tuning. Tweaking the sensitivity would make it pull timing faster/sooner.

///Mvy · 03-04-2015, 08:08 AM

It's hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread. Are you guys still in schedule for a May release date for the new bearings?

kawasaki00 · 03-04-2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mvy

It's hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread. Are you guys still in schedule for a May release date for the new bearings?

Waiting to hear back from Clevite. We will let everyone know as soon as we can.

BMRLVR · 03-04-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mvy

It's hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread. Are you guys still in schedule for a May release date for the new bearings?

Waiting to hear back from Clevite. We will let everyone know as soon as we can.

Looking forward to updates!

OneSickM · 03-04-2015, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Waiting to hear back from Clevite. We will let everyone know as soon as we can.

Why is it taking that long? do you know at what stage is it?

FazerBoy · 03-05-2015, 05:58 AM

Reading through all the various threads regarding rod bearing failure it seems to me that nobody really has a definitive answer as to what is actually causing the problem. There are lots of theories but no certainty.

If that is the case how can we know whether these Clevite bearings are going to be a cure? In what way are these bearings going to address the problem with the OEM ones if nobody is absolutely sure what the problem is?

JRV · 03-05-2015, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FazerBoy

Reading through all the various threads regarding rod bearing failure it seems to me that nobody really has a definitive answer as to what is actually causing the problem. There are lots of theories but no certainty.

If that is the case how can we know whether these Clevite bearings are going to be a cure? In what way are these bearings going to address the problem with the OEM ones if nobody is absolutely sure what the problem is?

This is a good point, but they are testing their theory at least with real change, more clearance because of the evidence/damage the rod bearings show. You never know but it's a good start.

///Mvy · 03-05-2015, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRV

This is a good point, but they are testing their theory at least with real change, more clearance because of the evidence/damage the rod bearings show. You never know but it's a good start.

Agreed, I've been running it throughs my head and I can't see how these bearings would hurt. Has a price point been mentioned yet?

JRV · 03-05-2015, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mvy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRV

This is a good point, but they are testing their theory at least with real change, more clearance because of the evidence/damage the rod bearings show. You never know but it's a good start.

Agreed, I've been running it throughs my head and I can't see how these bearings would hurt. Has a price point been mentioned yet?

I don't think so, haven't seen.

pbonsalb · 03-05-2015, 09:47 AM

There was a suggestion that they would cost around the same as the original BMW dealer list price for the original bearings. I take that to mean that they will cost more than the lowest price you can find from a BMW parts supplier for the current version of the bearings, which is around $325.

Sephiroth · 03-05-2015, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FazerBoy

Reading through all the various threads regarding rod bearing failure it seems to me that nobody really has a definitive answer as to what is actually causing the problem. There are lots of theories but no certainty.

If that is the case how can we know whether these Clevite bearings are going to be a cure? In what way are these bearings going to address the problem with the OEM ones if nobody is absolutely sure what the problem is?

"There is no certainty, only opportunity"

MFL · 03-05-2015, 10:24 PM

I really wish these threads could be 'Read Only' for dumbfucks.

regular guy · 03-05-2015, 10:25 PM

Here's some questions and answers about the bearings.

Q: If BMW doesn't publish the rod journal specs, how did you come up with one?
A. Twelve crankshafts were measured, 96 journals, three sources, three people measuring with three sets of instruments. This approach helps identify and account for rod journal size variance. It also guarantees that any differences in instruments, calibration, or measuring techniques are identified as well.

Q. What were the results?
A. The 96 journal measurements did not deviate from the measurements of "S65 Bearing Wiki" thread, but did help identify the manufacturing tolerance limits of the crankshaft.

Q. What was the distribution of measurements?
A. 17 pcs. -0.00010 inch, 53 pcs. nominal, 14 pcs. +0.00010 inch, 9 pcs +0.00020 inch, 3 pcs +0.00030 inch.

Q. Does this shed any light on the bearing clearance issue?
A. You be the judge. The measurements distribution tells the tale.

Q. Who selected the new bearing clearance, and how was it chosen?
A. I did not personally choose the bearing clearance. Three separate engine builders were consulted. Other than Van Dyne Engineering (Indy-500 winning), I don't have permission to name the other two. One of the other two is one of the most successful BMW race engine builders; the other is one of the most successful NASCAR engine builders.

Q. Who designed the bearings, and who reviewed the design?
A. Clevite (BMW OEM manufacturer) designed the bearings. Once the blueprints are completed, the same three engine builders mentioned above will review and approve. The original BMW S14 engine designer will review and approve them as well.

Q. How many sets will be made?
A. The initial manufacturing run will be 2000 shells, 125 sets (V8), 100 sets (V10).

Q. Will there be over sized bearings available for reground crankshafts?
A. No, not at this time.

Q. Who will be selling them?
A. Not me, I'm not a business. Sales distribution will be announced at a later time. A sales channel is already in place. Most of you will recognize the sales business.

Q. Will you also sell to the S85-V10 guys?
A. Yes, of course.

Q. What is the cost?
A. I really don't know the cost because I'm not the guy selling them. It's my understanding the cost will be a little more expensive, but very much in line with the original BMW 088/089 (lead-copper) bearings.

regular guy · 03-05-2015, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

There was a suggestion that they would cost around the same as the original BMW dealer list price for the original bearings. I take that to mean that they will cost more than the lowest price you can find from a BMW parts supplier for the current version of the bearings, which is around $325.

Please refer to the last question above, and this post:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...postcount=1677

OneSickM · 03-05-2015, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regular guy

Here's some questions and answers about the bearings.

Q. What is the cost?
A. I really don't know the cost because I'm not the guy selling them. It's my understanding the cost will be a little more expensive, but very much in line with the original BMW 088/089 (lead-copper) bearings.

Do these cost more than 702/703 (newer) bearings?

regular guy · 03-05-2015, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSickM

Do these cost more than 702/703 (newer) bearings?

The original 088/089's cost nearly double the 702/703's. When I spoke to the retailer/distributor last year, they gave me a ballpark price target, which if I remember correctly was going to be approximately 9% above the 088/089's. That's not bad (IMO) considering they're custom made, low volume production, and are Tri-Armor coated as well.

OneSickM · 03-06-2015, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regular guy

The original 088/089's cost nearly double the 702/703's. When I spoke to the retailer/distributor last year, they gave me a ballpark price target, which if I remember correctly was going to be approximately 9% above the 088/089's. That's not bad (IMO) considering they're custom made, low volume production, and are Tri-Armor coated as well.

Just wondering, what is the reason for being double price? is it because limited supply? or the material being made from is different?

03-03-2015, 11:49 AM	#289
Obioban Emperor 1697 Rep 2,784 Posts Drives: M3, M3, M5, M5 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Chester, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW M5 [0.00] 2017 BMW i3 [0.00] 2005 BMW M3 Coupe [0.00] 2001 BMW M5 [0.00]	If it were knock, that would be extremely easy and cheap for BMW to address. Recall, ecu flash, done. That, alone, makes me think it's very unlikely to be knock related. They're paying out the ass for engine replacements, and losing tons of consumer confidence/good will. __________________ 2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport
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03-04-2015, 08:08 AM	#293
///Mvy Second Lieutenant 50 Rep 212 Posts Drives: 15M3 + 08GT3 Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Annapolis iTrader: (1)	It's hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread. Are you guys still in schedule for a May release date for the new bearings?
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03-05-2015, 05:58 AM	#297
FazerBoy Lieutenant 45 Rep 514 Posts Drives: BMW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London, UK iTrader: (0)	Reading through all the various threads regarding rod bearing failure it seems to me that nobody really has a definitive answer as to what is actually causing the problem. There are lots of theories but no certainty. If that is the case how can we know whether these Clevite bearings are going to be a cure? In what way are these bearings going to address the problem with the OEM ones if nobody is absolutely sure what the problem is?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-05-2015, 09:47 AM	#301
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 7679 Rep 13,759 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	There was a suggestion that they would cost around the same as the original BMW dealer list price for the original bearings. I take that to mean that they will cost more than the lowest price you can find from a BMW parts supplier for the current version of the bearings, which is around $325.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-05-2015, 10:24 PM	#303
MFL Major 182 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bellevue, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [9.00]	I really wish these threads could be 'Read Only' for dumbfucks.
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03-05-2015, 10:25 PM	#304
regular guy Lieutenant Colonel 484 Rep 1,947 Posts Drives: Sprint car Join Date: May 2013 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Here's some questions and answers about the bearings. Q: If BMW doesn't publish the rod journal specs, how did you come up with one? A. Twelve crankshafts were measured, 96 journals, three sources, three people measuring with three sets of instruments. This approach helps identify and account for rod journal size variance. It also guarantees that any differences in instruments, calibration, or measuring techniques are identified as well. Q. What were the results? A. The 96 journal measurements did not deviate from the measurements of "S65 Bearing Wiki" thread, but did help identify the manufacturing tolerance limits of the crankshaft. Q. What was the distribution of measurements? A. 17 pcs. -0.00010 inch, 53 pcs. nominal, 14 pcs. +0.00010 inch, 9 pcs +0.00020 inch, 3 pcs +0.00030 inch. Q. Does this shed any light on the bearing clearance issue? A. You be the judge. The measurements distribution tells the tale. Q. Who selected the new bearing clearance, and how was it chosen? A. I did not personally choose the bearing clearance. Three separate engine builders were consulted. Other than Van Dyne Engineering (Indy-500 winning), I don't have permission to name the other two. One of the other two is one of the most successful BMW race engine builders; the other is one of the most successful NASCAR engine builders. Q. Who designed the bearings, and who reviewed the design? A. Clevite (BMW OEM manufacturer) designed the bearings. Once the blueprints are completed, the same three engine builders mentioned above will review and approve. The original BMW S14 engine designer will review and approve them as well. Q. How many sets will be made? A. The initial manufacturing run will be 2000 shells, 125 sets (V8), 100 sets (V10). Q. Will there be over sized bearings available for reground crankshafts? A. No, not at this time. Q. Who will be selling them? A. Not me, I'm not a business. Sales distribution will be announced at a later time. A sales channel is already in place. Most of you will recognize the sales business. Q. Will you also sell to the S85-V10 guys? A. Yes, of course. Q. What is the cost? A. I really don't know the cost because I'm not the guy selling them. It's my understanding the cost will be a little more expensive, but very much in line with the original BMW 088/089 (lead-copper) bearings.
	Appreciate 2 Quote