Anyone with a 2012-2013 wish they waited for the M4?

[quiksi]

the F8x is just another in the M3 line. all of them are great in their own way

[Strokeyguy]

Originally Posted by quiksi

the F8x is just another in the M3 line. all of them are great in their own way

the m3 badge was demoted / downgraded to a near twin N55 engine with a mitsubishi turbo. That's the dirty truth. But marketing was never going to let the M3 spot empty in their lineup even if they had to cheap shoot a 435i mark II engine in it. Now show me how the bespoke S65 is a rework of the N55 engine, it isn't at all because the E92 M3 is an M car. Something that the F8x M43 isn't except except for the chassis (and the marketing plastic badge).

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Strokeyguy

the m3 badge was demoted / downgraded to a near twin N55 engine with a mitsubishi turbo. That's the dirty truth. But marketing was never going to let the M3 spot empty in their lineup even if they had to cheap shoot a 435i mark II engine in it. Now show me how the bespoke S65 is a rework of the N55 engine, it isn't at all because the E92 M3 is an M car. Something that the F8x M43 isn't except except for the chassis (and the marketing plastic badge).

to bad the marketing team was right because the F80 is probably doing great sales wise. it looks aggressive, handles great,and has modern power. that is what people want. i cant blame BMW for doing what they did.

although i wont be a buyer for the F80. While i think the car is nice and cool. The engine just doesnt do it for me. the S65 and S85 will always be something to talk about. the S55 is just another engine that is a product from regulations.

[JTO24]

Had a 2013 M3, now have a 2015 M3.. I do miss the e92 a lot; that car is truly special each and every time you drive it, especially catless The new car is more comfortable, has a good bit more power and handles better.

Here's how I rank em:

Looks - e92 > f80
Power (amount) - e92 < f80
Power delivery - e92 = f80 ---> I LOVE the throttle response, sound and feel of the v8 but the useable low end torque of the new car is great.
Sound e92 > f80
Handling - e92 = f80 although the e92 was more predictable and easier, IMO to play around with. The new car is snappier but handles better with higher limits
Transmission e92 = f80 the e92 was 6mt and the f80 is dct. I prefer manual but dct is super effective.. it does have its quirks, though

If I could have both, I would. The e92 M3 is such a wonderful, special feeling car. The new one is more sterile but I can't deny the fact that it's objectively better in every way, performance wise.

I do miss NA feel and red line so I'm aiming for 991.1 c2s next go 'round.

[Honda]

Originally Posted by JTO24

Had a 2013 M3, now have a 2015 M3.. I do miss the e92 a lot; that car is truly special each and every time you drive it, especially catless The new car is more comfortable, has a good bit more power and handles better.

Here's how I rank em:

Looks - e92 > f80
Power (amount) - e92 < f80
Power delivery - e92 = f80 ---> I LOVE the throttle response, sound and feel of the v8 but the useable low end torque of the new car is great.
Sound e92 > f80
Handling - e92 = f80 although the e92 was more predictable and easier, IMO to play around with. The new car is snappier but handles better with higher limits
Transmission e92 = f80 the e92 was 6mt and the f80 is dct. I prefer manual but dct is super effective.. it does have its quirks, though

If I could have both, I would. The e92 M3 is such a wonderful, special feeling car. The new one is more sterile but I can't deny the fact that it's objectively better in every way, performance wise.

I do miss NA feel and red line so I'm aiming for 991.1 c2s next go 'round.

Can you please explain why do you think F8X handles better than E9X M3? I am just curious to know how do people compare both. I test drove F8X M3 many times but I felt they both handled the same

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by e90-335i

Can you please explain why do you think F8X handles better than E9X M3? I am just curious to know how do people compare both. I test drove F8X M3 many times but I felt they both handled the same

It's very subjective my comparison.. The e92 felt smaller on the road which I like but the f80 feels more planted. Part of that is due to the fact that the rear sub-frame isn't isolated by rubber bushings anymore.

But I agree, I haven't pushed the car hard enough (track time) to really gage this better. This is just my comparison as a daily driver and some of the turns/on-ramps I see daily.

[M3FISH]

Originally Posted by JTO24

Had a 2013 M3, now have a 2015 M3.. I do miss the e92 a lot; that car is truly special each and every time you drive it, especially catless The new car is more comfortable, has a good bit more power and handles better.

Here's how I rank em:

Looks - e92 > f80
Power (amount) - e92 < f80
Power delivery - e92 = f80 ---> I LOVE the throttle response, sound and feel of the v8 but the useable low end torque of the new car is great.
Sound e92 > f80
Handling - e92 = f80 although the e92 was more predictable and easier, IMO to play around with. The new car is snappier but handles better with higher limits
Transmission e92 = f80 the e92 was 6mt and the f80 is dct. I prefer manual but dct is super effective.. it does have its quirks, though

If I could have both, I would. The e92 M3 is such a wonderful, special feeling car. The new one is more sterile but I can't deny the fact that it's objectively better in every way, performance wise.

I do miss NA feel and red line so I'm aiming for 991.1 c2s next go 'round.

Sound should have been highlighted in bold lol. Great review thou!

[W///]

Originally Posted by e90-335i

Can you please explain why do you think F8X handles better than E9X M3? I am just curious to know how do people compare both. I test drove F8X M3 many times but I felt they both handled the same

The F80 is just a stiffer car, period. Not to mention it has ridiculous front end grip.

Not to mention the brakes are so much better than the E9x.

I more or less agree with everything JTO says though.

[RG m3]

Originally Posted by Strokeyguy

I agree also.

the f8x M3/4 is a m435i.
Proof is that if bmw had put a m435i badge on a car equipped with the S55 engine (f8x so called 'm' engine) but without the chassis, it would have passed easy like a letter in the mail, made perfect sense. And then they would have put something similar to a 991 GT3 RS 4.0L NA engine with 500 hp in the M4 and many of us would have chosen that car. But as it is, that car does not exist and what we have is a place filler pseudo m car. Like in an opera you have the superstar singer and if he falls sick, then the production cannot cancel the show, as ticket will be bought no matter what, and so there is a substitute singer. There comes the F8x a M chassis with a i engine. They did not stop there they did not do well with the looks either which is more of a hit or miss. I do agree it will age very quickly unlike the e9x which has the right proportions and lines continuity for classic sport car appeal.

Where the f8x might look a tad more aggressive due to its wider track it lacks the class of the e9x
It is the most odd thing to compare two cars that have very little in common except the marketing badge.
A bespoke engine versus a generic engine (13 other bmw models use very very nearly the same 3.0L i6 block, same bore, same stroke as the S55).
A racing ala Ferrari sounding engine in oem version versus something that really struggles to sound barely 'acceptable' for that price tag with a modded exhaust. An engine that is fun linearly versus one that has no use for revving higher than 5K with more of a ON/OFF acceleration style. You are basically buying a rebranded mitsubishi turbo. They also copied the GT-R engine block plasma coating. It's being done by the same contractor company that coats the GT-R block. Nothing bmw there, their design team is running after nissan behind closed doors. And they're not closing the gap at all.

I can predict that when the f8x will end production. It will we swept off and forgotten in no time, at which point, i can see the bespoke NA V8 4.0 M3 gaining more popularity than the f8x M4/3. Just like wines there are good years and bad years. It's no coincidence that when bmw was making critical decisions about the f8x m4/3 in 2009 we had the worst financial crisis for some time. They had to cut production costs, not with the chassis, but with that i engine and sourced cheaper oem parts manufacturer for the interior and amortized their CF parts production plant. Very happy with my 4.0 liter V8 E92.

I agree.

The f8x m3/m4 are essentially half m cars. They have the bespoke chassis but not the bespoke engine. It would have made perfect sense to call them m335i/m435i. Although the new cars are great at generating better numbers, they are really lacking in the feel and emotion department. The slightly better performance is not worth losing all the soul. There's much more to a car than the numbers it puts up. The e9x was already plenty fast and capable anyway. You can't even come close to using all its power or capabilities in most circumstances.

I think the f8x will be quickly forgotten after its run. There's nothing special or memorable about these cars. I was also wondering who will want to buy the f8x out of warranty? If we think the e9x is expensive to maintain, I don't think we've seen anything yet. The f8x promises to be a nightmare. Earlier generations of m3's(especially the e9x) will be sought after much more.

I think BMW should turn its head and look at what Ford has done with the gt350. True, it's a low volume model(4000 a year)but look at what they did.
Now that's special. BMW could learn a thing or two or three from Ford. If I was a coupe guy, I wouldn't even consider the m4 and would go straight to the gt350.

Since I'm a sedan guy, I'm very happy with my 6mt e90. That car is a keeper. Nothing out there today can replace it.

[Honda]

Originally Posted by JTO24

It's very subjective my comparison.. The e92 felt smaller on the road which I like but the f80 feels more planted. Part of that is due to the fact that the rear sub-frame isn't isolated by rubber bushings anymore.

But I agree, I haven't pushed the car hard enough (track time) to really gage this better. This is just my comparison as a daily driver and some of the turns/on-ramps I see daily.

I like to hear feedback from guys who owned both at some point (like you) because they can give us the best opinion. I believe test driving alone is not enough to give best comparison.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by RG m3

I agree.

The f8x m3/m4 are essentially half m cars. They have the bespoke chassis but not the bespoke engine. It would have made perfect sense to call them m335i/m435i. Although the new cars are great at generating better numbers, they are really lacking in the feel and emotion department. The slightly better performance is not worth losing all the soul. There's much more to a car than the numbers it puts up. The e9x was already plenty fast and capable anyway. You can't even come close to using all its power or capabilities in most circumstances.

I think the f8x will be quickly forgotten after its run. There's nothing special or memorable about these cars. I was also wondering who will want to buy the f8x out of warranty? If we think the e9x is expensive to maintain, I don't think we've seen anything yet. The f8x promises to be a nightmare. Earlier generations of m3's(especially the e9x) will be sought after much more.

I think BMW should turn its head and look at what Ford has done with the gt350. True, it's a low volume model(4000 a year)but look at what they did.
Now that's special. BMW could learn a thing or two or three from Ford. If I was a coupe guy, I wouldn't even consider the m4 and would go straight to the gt350.

Since I'm a sedan guy, I'm very happy with my 6mt e90. That car is a keeper. Nothing out there today can replace it.

The only country that can make a crazy engine in affordable car is either GM or ford. BMW has way stricter government regulations to follow.

[W///]

Originally Posted by RG m3

I agree.

The f8x m3/m4 are essentially half m cars. They have the bespoke chassis but not the bespoke engine. It would have made perfect sense to call them m335i/m435i. Although the new cars are great at generating better numbers, they are really lacking in the feel and emotion department. The slightly better performance is not worth losing all the soul. There's much more to a car than the numbers it puts up. The e9x was already plenty fast and capable anyway. You can't even come close to using all its power or capabilities in most circumstances.

I think the f8x will be quickly forgotten after its run. There's nothing special or memorable about these cars. I was also wondering who will want to buy the f8x out of warranty? If we think the e9x is expensive to maintain, I don't think we've seen anything yet. The f8x promises to be a nightmare. Earlier generations of m3's(especially the e9x) will be sought after much more.

I think BMW should turn its head and look at what Ford has done with the gt350. True, it's a low volume model(4000 a year)but look at what they did.
Now that's special. BMW could learn a thing or two or three from Ford. If I was a coupe guy, I wouldn't even consider the m4 and would go straight to the gt350.

Since I'm a sedan guy, I'm very happy with my 6mt e90. That car is a keeper. Nothing out there today can replace it.

Faaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr too early to say whether the F8x will be expensive to maintain or not. They're all expensive. Ask the people that spun their rod bearings with these S65.

I disagree about the assessment that the S55 is a dog. Just not true IMO. It's just a completely different kind of "fun" compared to the S65, that's all.

The E9x having a V8 over it's non-M counterparts is an anomaly. You're essentially saying that an E39 540i and E39 M5 are more or less the same car.

I 100% refuse to sell my E92 M3 for anything else in the BMW range at the moment, but that doesn't mean I won't add an M2 or M3 F80. So I don't think I'm being completely bias towards one model vs another.

My 2 cents

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ezio

The only country that can make a crazy engine in affordable car is either GM or ford. BMW has way stricter government regulations to follow.

I feel like it's only a matter of time honestly. Who would have thought that Ford get rid of V8s in their trucks?

I agree that if you get rid of V8s completely, most of the charm of having these cars go away. But again, why would the new Ford GT be running a boosted 6 cylinder now?

Times are changing I'm afraid (yet another reason to keep the E9x M3).

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by W///

I feel like it's only a matter of time honestly. Who would have thought that Ford get rid of V8s in their trucks?

I agree that if you get rid of V8s completely, most of the charm of having these cars go away. But again, why would the new Ford GT be running a boosted 6 cylinder now?

Times are changing I'm afraid (yet another reason to keep the E9x M3).

I heard the next gt500 is going to get a that ford GT engine. I. Agree

[RG m3]

Originally Posted by W///

Faaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr too early to say whether the F8x will be expensive to maintain or not. They're all expensive. Ask the people that spun their rod bearings with these S65.

I disagree about the assessment that the S55 is a dog. Just not true IMO. It's just a completely different kind of "fun" compared to the S65, that's all.

The E9x having a V8 over it's non-M counterparts is an anomaly. You're essentially saying that an E39 540i and E39 M5 are more or less the same car.

I 100% refuse to sell my E92 M3 for anything else in the BMW range at the moment, but that doesn't mean I won't add an M2 or M3 F80. So I don't think I'm being completely bias towards one model vs another.

My 2 cents

You're right, they're all expensive to maintain. I do think the f8x will cost more in maintenance down the road because of the sheer complexity of the engine(turbos, intercoolers, direct injection, valvetronic, etc). BMW's turbo 6's have not been known for great reliability either. I hope for the sake of f8x owners that it gets better.

I never said the s55 was a dog. I acknowledged the fact that it performs better than the s65. That's irrefutable. I just don't like the way it does it.
In my opinion, the fact the e9x v8 was an anomaly is what made the car special and exotic in the first place. Engine wise, nothing even remotely close to a regular 3 series. The same can't be said for the f8x unfortunately.

I never talked about the e39's either, but I do consider the e39 m5 to be a classic. Of course, I don't think the e39 540i is the equivalent of its big brother. The m5 had it's own chassis setup and engine. Displacement was larger and features like itb's made it special. It had m dna in a sense.

Like I said before, the f8x has the m chassis(and a good one) but, imo, not the engine. Strenghtening a n55 and adding a turbo to it doesn't make it a m engine in my book. I guess everyone has their opinion.

I'm happy to see you want to keep your e92. It is a unique car. Good decision.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by RG m3

The f8x m3/m4 are essentially half m cars. They have the bespoke chassis but not the bespoke engine.

Ugh...not this again. The engine may be derived from the regular series turbo I6, but they aren't identical engines. Same idea as how the US-spec engine in the e36 M3 was derived from the regular series I6.

Although the new cars are great at generating better numbers, they are really lacking in the feel and emotion department. The slightly better performance is not worth losing all the soul.

This is subjective--there are plenty of ex-e9x owning F8x owners who feel that the current car is vastly superior than the older one and would never go back.

I think the f8x will be quickly forgotten after its run. There's nothing special or memorable about these cars.

That will never happen. The opportunity for rapid hp gains with little work will ALWAYS have a market. That the current car is actually lighter than our cars will also ensure that there are certain basic benefits to the F8X. Visually, the F8X is definitely more aggressive looking than our cars, which again, to some will be an attractive feature.

I was also wondering who will want to buy the f8x out of warranty? If we think the e9x is expensive to maintain, I don't think we've seen anything yet. The f8x promises to be a nightmare.

This seems like more speculation and fanboyism. Why do you think the F8X will be more problematic/expensive to own than our cars? I will say that turbo cars seem to be more finicky than NA cars (especially for BMW), but at the same time, the M division seems to take great pride in developing fairly stout engines. All bets are off for a highly modded F8x though, but that's the same for any car. The only problem I've heard regarding the F8X cars is some type of drivetrain/driveshaft vibration--and that could be fixed by now.

True, it's a low volume model(4000 a year)but look at what they did.Now that's special. BMW could learn a thing or two or three from Ford. If I was a coupe guy, I wouldn't even consider the m4 and would go straight to the gt350.

Well, BMW being a German company has different concerns than an American company making an engine primarily for the US market. The relationship between taxes, CO2 emissions, and displacement require that BMW changes their approach. Better mileage, improved emissions, more power, and less weight? Sounds like progress to me! If it made sense for BMW to build upon the S65 for the current car, I'm sure they would have. Next time around, you're likely to either see electric turbo chargers (like Audi) or some type of performance-biased hybrid system.

That car is a keeper. Nothing out there today can replace it.

That's great, I'm very happy that you enjoy your car. I'm a car guy and while my e92 is a spectacular vehicle, there are other vehicles that I'd like to experience in my lifetime.

[redpriest]

Honestly, I love the way the new M4 looks. It's killer aggressive, and mean looking - and it does so in a way that makes my car look old. That's not to say I would ever get rid of my E92, but it does make me consider adding a F82 to my stable. It's still the best jack of all trades car in my book, IMO. The aftermarket support alone makes it easy to choose the M4 over an ATS-V or a C63.

[RG m3]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel;18525886[QUOTE

]Ugh...not this again. The engine may be derived from the regular series turbo I6, but they aren't identical engines.

I know the engines are not identical, but the s55 is in essence a n55 on steroids. Nothing special there imo. And why does it sound so much worse than the n55?

This is subjective--there are plenty of ex-e9x owning F8x owners who feel that the current car is vastly superior than the older one and would never go back.

If they like the f8x better, good for them. People drive what they like best, that's the beauty of having choices.

The opportunity for rapid hp gains with little work will ALWAYS have a market.

Agree with you, but the f8x will have a lot of competition there. With all the turbo cars coming out, people will have a lot of choice.

That the current car is actually lighter than our cars will also ensure that there are certain basic benefits to the F8X.

The weight argument always makes me laugh. ///Marketing did a good job on that one. With comparable equipment, the f82 is no lighter than the e92.
C&D tested a manual e90 back in 08. It was loaded, had a sunroof and weighed 3680. They tested a loaded manual f80 last year with the carbon fiber roof and ccb's that weighed 3580. Remove the sunroof from the e90 and put steel brakes on the f80 and the difference is 50 pounds at best. Lighter, but insignificant nonetheless.

Visually, the F8X is definitely more aggressive looking than our cars, which again, to some will be an attractive feature.

Yes, the f8x is more agressive and that will attract some people, no doubt.
Those who like subtle will look elsewhere.

This seems like more speculation and fanboyism. Why do you think the F8X will be more problematic/expensive to own than our cars?

Mainly because of the complexity of the engine(turbos, intercoolers, direct injection, valvetronic), all things the e9x doesn't have. BMW's turbo I6's are not known for their reliability. I hope that changes.

Next time around, you're likely to either see electric turbo chargers (like Audi) or some type of performance-biased hybrid system.

Actually, I'd like to see a performance hybrid system in the m3, like the LaFerrari. High revving naturally aspirated engine with great sound plus the instant torque delivery of an electric motor. That would be great, although even more complex than the turbo engine. They would also have to solve some weight issues.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by RG m3

And why does it sound so much worse than the n55?

It's that M special sauce! Most M3 don't sound that good in stock form, IMO. Oddly, I like the sound of the e36 M3. Even our cars, the exhaust on a stock car is very quiet, although the intake noise sounds good. It's not until you spend thousands re-engineering the e9x M exhaust that it starts to sound like it should.

If they like the f8x better, good for them. People drive what they like best, that's the beauty of having choices.

Agreed. But I also don't think there's anything wrong with the F8x cars. It's a different approach to the engine design in response to different times than when the S65/85 was in development.

Agree with you, but the f8x will have a lot of competition there. With all the turbo cars coming out, people will have a lot of choice.

Nothing wrong with that. The "M" badge carries a lot of weight for a lot of people. I can only assume that it's only a matter of time before there are BT kits for the current cars for even more power than the std bolt-on solutions.

The weight argument always makes me laugh. ///Marketing did a good job on that one. With comparable equipment, the f82 is no lighter than the e92.

I would also assume that you shrugged off the lighter weight of the V8 in our cars vs the I6 in the previous gen due to the overall heavier car?

Mainly because of the complexity of the engine(turbos, intercoolers, direct injection, valvetronic), all things the e9x doesn't have. BMW's turbo I6's are not known for their reliability. I hope that changes.

I can't argue with that--I think conceptually, we're on the same page. BMW doesn't have the best track record with their modern I6 turbos. However, it also seems like BMW learned a lot from the regular series cars. I would hope that the extra money one pays for the M3/M4 cars allowed BMW to put more robust parts on the engines vs the regular series turbo cars. Time will tell.

Actually, I'd like to see a performance hybrid system in the m3, like the LaFerrari. High revving naturally aspirated engine with great sound plus the instant torque delivery of an electric motor.

Some sort of modern version of the S54 with a 50+hp electric motor could be pretty fun. But yeah, weight is going to be the issue.

[RG m3]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

It's that M special sauce! Most M3 don't sound that good in stock form, IMO. Oddly, I like the sound of the e36 M3. Even our cars, the exhaust on a stock car is very quiet, although the intake noise sounds good. It's not until you spend thousands re-engineering the e9x M exhaust that it starts to sound like it should.

I think they should change the sauce, for the I6's anyway! The e46 and f8x are both horrible imo from an exhaust sound perspective. The e36 was better because it had a "regular" I6. I can understand if you prefer that one because I had an e46 330i that was close in sound to the e36. The first mod on my e90 was the exhaust. Agree that the stock one is way too quiet.

But I also don't think there's anything wrong with the F8x cars. It's a different approach to the engine design in response to different times than when the S65/85 was in development.

The only thing wrong in my opinion is the character and sound of the engine/exhaust. The engine being the heart of the car, its a flaw I can't ignore and because of that the f8x is off my list. I know they had to change, but change isn't always good. Other than that, I think the f8x is a great all-around package just like the e9x was. It handles great, performs great and looks good. I still think its the best car in its class overall, although competition is fiercer than ever.

I would also assume that you shrugged off the lighter weight of the V8 in our cars vs the I6 in the previous gen due to the overall heavier car?

Yes I did. I believe companies think consumers are stupid. That irritates me. Why put emphasis on a lighter engine when the car as a whole is heavier? Why say that this car is xxx pounds lighter than that car when its clearly not? I realize marketing has to focus on the positive features of a car, but they shouldn't try to mislead people and should just tell it like it is.

I can't argue with that--I think conceptually, we're on the same page.

I would say that we are.

I would hope that the extra money one pays for the M3/M4 cars allowed BMW to put more robust parts on the engines vs the regular series turbo cars. Time will tell.

Time will tell indeed. I hope the s55 will be as reliable as the s65(its been pretty good), but I doubt it. Maybe BMW will prove me wrong.

Some sort of modern version of the S54 with a 50+hp electric motor could be pretty fun.

I was actually thinking of a s65+electric motor!

[Strokeyguy]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

It's not until you spend thousands re-engineering the e9x M exhaust that it starts to sound like it should.

It's fine to debate different points of view as long as balanced arguments are made, and people like RG3 kept the balance from the f8x side of things, but when you try to salvage a widely recognized blatant defeat point, you sound half cynical and a nonsensical fanboy. No, the E92 M3 S65 V8 is not like the F8x in the sound department in that it does not require to "spend thousands re-engineering the e9x M exhaust" (quoting). That's bullcrap. Saying that, you just blow any pretense that you have anything intelligent to say that is not fanboyism. The OEM E92 M3 sounds fabulous in OEM form it does NOT need any aftermarket exhaust (although adding one is ok). The F8x is completely off league in that department, not even in the same galaxy system in terms of how shitty its engine + exhaust sounds in oem form, ...and even fully modified is still nowhere near a well broken in OEM S65 V8 with OEM exhaust. That's right OEM. And can be improved even more. Everybody knew that, knows that and that won't change.

I've seen this before from f8x fanboys attempting to displace the engine sound debate by blaming it on the exhaust. "Oh yeah, it's just a matter of changing exhaust.. blah". Not at all, with the f8x you are stuck with one of the worst sounding engine on the market, no matter what you stick on it.

And then there is the excellent induction sound from the V8 S65 intake, and that's from the front of the car, something that, by design does not exist in the f8x.

Basically you just opened the flushing drain for yourself after you said that. The sound department is not even a debate, it's immediate discredit to not recognize that (the speakers pumping engine sound in the cabin is a give away. Straight out of the factory it started as a looser in the sound department ).

[RG m3]

Originally Posted by Strokeyguy

And then there is the excellent induction sound from the V8 S65 intake, and that's from the front of the car, something that, by design does not exist in the f8x.

After three years of ownership, I still can't decide if I prefer the mesmerizing intake or the amazing exhaust. This car sounds so good that it should be illegal!
Soon, it might be!