Metal VANOS Cover Failure - MUST READ!

[panda-R]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Don’t fear Matt

whose matt and how do i avoid him?

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by panda-R

whose matt and how do i avoid him?

Steer clear of Canada!

[Soden82]

Matt from the you-know-what website where you need a subscription?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Catched the small clip also on the lower vanos this morning. Squeezed it in place with a nice and distinct click.
Have not seen any of the mentioned worn at all on the clips (passanger side only). No offence but find it hard to believe that they could worn the way they sit. They can't rotate, and there is plenty lubrication should they manage to vibrate (which also seem strange with the despite all fair spring power holding it down. Why would they jump up/down?).

Anyways, will try to make sure that pass side clips are all in place and drive while waiting for gasket. Where after plan to pull driver side timing cover.

At this point I tend to lean back on that the mech simply missed hooking the small clips. Living on the hope.

This time one of the clips look a tad weird, is it worn after all..? Attached a pick of a proper clip for ref.
Will continue follow up. Received the timing gaskets but no time to do it near future. Will daily the car mean while i.e. I am not overly worried. Yet.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

This time one of the clips look a tad weird, is it worn after all..? Attached a pick of a proper clip for ref.
Will continue follow up. Received the timing gaskets but no time to do it near future. Will daily the car mean while i.e. I am not overly worried. Yet.

So took of driver side timing cover and checked, While I hade a wrench on the crank pulley I obviously checked the pass side as well thought the oil fill.

So, both the small clips (i.e. the one on each cover) on the passanger side had come loose, hooked back up. On the driver side the small clip on one of the covers was loose, hooked back up.

Carefully loooking through the clips all the main are in place, and I can't say I spot any wear. At this point feel confident enought to continue driving with a smile. Did the small clips came off simply due to centrifugal force? They are pretty sturdy so still find it hard to believe, but maybe the case. Anyways, as long as the main ones are in place I'm fine.

Btw first time getting the fan out, which turned out to be the challenge in this "project", jeez!

Ps. Replaced the metal gasket. Will follow up on possible leaks and report back.
Ps. Ps. Forgot to put the DCT in neutral (under the shift nob). Worked fine so apparently while it locks the wheels apprently it doesn't look the engine. Just FYI for the next DCT guy.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by kolosy

there's no reason not to disclose publicly. either it's a manufacturing defect (very unlikely) and they should own up and replace, or it's a design defect which we should all be aware of.

Totally agree here. Nothing wrong in inform about a for our engines possibly bad product, obviously after the lower quality is confirmed. In my view bad to NOT inform. Again, obviously issue has to be confirmed.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

So took of driver side timing cover and checked, While I hade a wrench on the crank pulley I obviously checked the pass side as well thought the oil fill.

So, both the small clips (i.e. the one on each cover) on the passanger side had come loose, hooked back up. On the driver side the small clip on one of the covers was loose, hooked back up.

Carefully loooking through the clips all the main are in place, and I can't say I spot any wear. At this point feel confident enought to continue driving with a smile. Did the small clips came off simply due to centrifugal force? They are pretty sturdy so still find it hard to believe, but maybe the case. Anyways, as long as the main ones are in place I'm fine.

Btw first time getting the fan out, which turned out to be the challenge in this "project", jeez!

Ps. Replaced the metal gasket. Will follow up on possible leaks and report back.
Ps. Ps. Forgot to put the DCT in neutral (under the shift nob). Worked fine so apparently while it locks the wheels apprently it doesn't look the engine. Just FYI for the next DCT guy.

Unfortunate that you found another loose clip on the drivers side. This is what honestly bothers me the most- I have no idea what is going on in the driver side.

Currently trying to set up the install of some bolt on covers. I want the confidence that I will never have to worry about this issue ever again, and I don't think anything other than bolt on covers will do that.

Finding someone who can do the job in my area is challenging. Really wish I had more garage space.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by drwankel

Unfortunate that you found another loose clip on the drivers side. This is what honestly bothers me the most- I have no idea what is going on in the driver side.

Currently trying to set up the install of some bolt on covers. I want the confidence that I will never have to worry about this issue ever again, and I don't think anything other than bolt on covers will do that.

Finding someone who can do the job in my area is challenging. Really wish I had more garage space.

Understand your concern mate. Still, checking the covers IMO certainly helps. In my case it was only the small clips, those could even be an install error who knows. As long as the larger sits, the cover sits.

Who has a proper garage... The stuff I'm doing is done in my public garage few blocks away. Made the engine wrench with a curtain rod.... Check them for your peace of mind, its very straight forward. You don't need to touch the pass side timing cover, you'll see what is needed through the oil fill. The driver side is fortunately much easier to access, you don't have to touch anything at all except for the intake box (two screws + two bolts) and the fan (one screw + one connector).

[GORDON.M3]

Double-checked my work today, previously installed SLON vanos covers for my friend about 2000km ago. Absolutely 0 play and the clips were tight locked in. That was my first time installing this kind of covers also, so I think its safe to say that the Slon covers don't have an issue if installed correctly. Even though in the last photo that one clip seems to have a slight gap, I remember it being like that already from the first day of installation. To unclip it you really gotta pry the metal back which I'm not going to try.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

Double-checked my work today, previously installed SLON vanos covers for my friend about 2000km ago. Absolutely 0 play and the clips were tight locked in. That was my first time installing this kind of covers also, so I think its safe to say that the Slon covers don't have an issue if installed correctly. Even though in the last photo that one clip seems to have a slight gap, I remember it being like that already from the first day of installation. To unclip it you really gotta pry the metal back which I'm not going to try.

Good input, thanks Gordon. So you even lifted both valve covers, "just" for the check? (i.e. did you feel you where'nt able to check via timing cover only?)

Tend to feel the same though, the Slon covers seem to stick.

[LKN624]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Good input, thanks Gordon. So you even lifted both valve covers, "just" for the check? (i.e. did you feel you where'nt able to check via timing cover only?)

Tend to feel the same though, the Slon covers seem to stick.

If they were installed properly*

I was afraid of them coming off so as I said in my previous post…turned the engine by hand and lightly tapped each of the ears with a small nylon hammer to make sure they were seated properly.

Just checked today again while topping off a little bit (after 3000km) and they were still on there.

[IamFODI]

I'm sure some brands are better than others here. But I wonder if the real takeaway here isn't that X or Y brand is "fine" or suspect or whatever. Maybe it's that metal covers are inherently unforgiving of any imprecision in manufacturing and/or lack of attention to detail on install, and thus they basically replace the probability of cracking (whatever it is) with some probability of popping off and/or sending metal fragments through the oil.

Thoughts?

[GORDON.M3]

Originally Posted by LKN624

If they were installed properly*

I was afraid of them coming off so as I said in my previous post…turned the engine by hand and lightly tapped each of the ears with a small nylon hammer to make sure they were seated properly.

Just checked today again while topping off a little bit (after 3000km) and they were still on there.

I didn't use a hammer to seat them but I pushed very hard with my fingers or the rubber end of a screwdriver to really push them down when clipping them. Hammering all around I was worried about warping the metal and distorting the shape it was naturally formed in.
Double-checked every single clip from start to finish. A good rule is to mark the first clip with a marker so you know which one you have "pressed" in once you gone all around.

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Good input, thanks Gordon. So you even lifted both valve covers, "just" for the check? (i.e. did you feel you where'nt able to check via timing cover only?)

Tend to feel the same though, the Slon covers seem to stick.

Just removing the timing cover could have been a good way to check also but I was helping my friend re-do his valve covers as we didn't apply dreibond on the engine/timing cover gap and the valve cover developed a small tiny leak from that spot. So we went ahead and re-did the valve covers and also inspected the vanos covers for peace of mind.

[LKN624]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

Just removing the timing cover could have been a good way to check also but I was helping my friend re-do his valve covers as we didn't apply dreibond on the engine/timing cover gap and the valve cover developed a small tiny leak from that spot. So we went ahead and re-did the valve covers and also inspected the vanos covers for peace of mind.

Sorry, what I meant to say was lightly tap it with the nylon mallet which is used to tap in plastic interior parts, so not a natural hammer but that is missing to really make sure that everything is seated properly but yes, I did push everything in with my fingers to see the clips, but very gently and gingerly, tapping each clip with a small mallet.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

Just removing the timing cover could have been a good way to check also but I was helping my friend re-do his valve covers as we didn't apply dreibond on the engine/timing cover gap and the valve cover developed a small tiny leak from that spot. So we went ahead and re-did the valve covers and also inspected the vanos covers for peace of mind.

You sound like one of those friends I need...

[GORDON.M3]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

You sound like one of those friends I need...

Hahaha, I prefer to really only work on my own car but on rare occasions, if I feel I am up to the job I will help my friends with their cars.

Originally Posted by LKN624

Sorry, what I meant to say was lightly tap it with the nylon mallet which is used to tap in plastic interior parts, so not a natural hammer but that is missing to really make sure that everything is seated properly but yes, I did push everything in with my fingers to see the clips, but very gently and gingerly, tapping each clip with a small mallet.

I'd avoid advising people to tap it with a hammer because its CNC and aluminum even the slightest tapping could possibly deform its shape (everyone's force of "tapping" is different). I would recommend only using the sheer force of pressing it in with either your fingers or a rubber ended tool.

[Matthew_M3]

I would like to give the community an update on the experience I had with the ******/EPM VANOS covers. I know much has been made the past few months about some of these metal VANOS covers, which ones to use and avoid, as well as some having major issues leading to engine loss.

To start, all the maintenance work done in this story was done by Malek @ MRF. I am mentioning this right off the bat as I want it to be known that a reputable shop and person did the work stated in this post. On 10/4/22 @ 77k miles, my car went into MRF to get a handful of maintenance items addressed while I was away on vacation. One of the items on the list was valve cover gaskets. I had heard of the failing plastic VANOS covers from forum/fb group posts prior and, at the recommendation of MRF, aimed to replace them with metal covers while he was there. At the time of needing to purchase, and I cannot remember for certain, the SLON covers were out of stock or unable to ship and deliver to the shop in time. The ****** covers were in stock and ready to ship, so I went with those. Malek installed them at his shop, noting that some of the clips did not go on easily. He did verify that all the clips were seated prior to installing the valve covers and gaskets.

As many other owners did, I began to hear rumblings about some metal VANOS covers coming off and blowing some motors. Much was made about this topic and it seemed as if many of the failed covers were knockoffs from china. However, I also was reading that the problematic covers were coming from almost every manufacturer, mainly the knockoffs and the ones coming from ******. I reached out to Matt personally on August 17th asking if some owners of his covers, or if the posts about the problematic covers overseas were regarding the ****** ones, to which he replied no.

I checked the one accessible cover through the oil fill cap after talking to Matt and I did not see any of the teeth having unclipped themselves. However, after discussing the issue with Malek and going along with his professional opinion, I ordered a set of SLON covers through IND and scheduled a service to have the valve covers pulled to check on the ****** covers. I must emphasize that I only ordered the SLON covers as a precautionary measure. Had the ****** covers been fully seated upon pulling the valve covers, I would have left them and sold the SLON covers here on the forums. Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 covers had 2 or 3 of the teeth come off. I'm not kidding that the one cover that was fully seated was the one I had direct access to through the oil fill cap. Seeing this and with guidance from Malek, he swapped out the ****** covers for the SLON covers. This was finished yesterday, 09/01/23 @ 86k miles.

I highly doubt this is a case of improper installation. Had this been Malek, or any shops first or one of their first attempts at install of metal VANOS covers, this could be a plausible/acceptable explanation for the clips coming undone. However, Malek has done enough of these that I feel confident in ruling out improper install as the culprit. As Redd pointed out in his original post covering this topic: I have no proof but the way I see it, the loose clip allowed the aluminum VANOS cover to vibrate/rub against the steel VANOS gear. This wears down the aluminum hook, which makes the VANOS cover even more loose, and rubs more. After closely inspecting both the SLON and ****** covers and their clips, I want to say this is the most plausible explanation. It must be noted, however, that this is only my assumption and not fact.

I am not trying to tear down or build up anybody in this post. While I had issues with the product I purchased, this may not be true for other owners of this product. My goal with this post is to spread more awareness of the issue. I highly recommend anyone with metal VANOS covers to go through the process of pulling your valve covers and checking each VANOS cover in its entirety. Had I taken the results of the one good cover, the only one I had access to, and applied that to the other 3 covers, my car would have surely grenaded itself by the end of the month. It's better you spend the smaller amount it would be to check your covers than to buy/replace your entire S65.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Matthew_M3

I would like to give the community an update on the experience I had with the ******/EPM VANOS covers. I know much has been made the past few months about some of these metal VANOS covers, which ones to use and avoid, as well as some having major issues leading to engine loss.

To start, all the maintenance work done in this story was done by Malek @ MRF. I am mentioning this right off the bat as I want it to be known that a reputable shop and person did the work stated in this post. On 10/4/22 @ 77k miles, my car went into MRF to get a handful of maintenance items addressed while I was away on vacation. One of the items on the list was valve cover gaskets. I had heard of the failing plastic VANOS covers from forum/fb group posts prior and, at the recommendation of MRF, aimed to replace them with metal covers while he was there. At the time of needing to purchase, and I cannot remember for certain, the SLON covers were out of stock or unable to ship and deliver to the shop in time. The ****** covers were in stock and ready to ship, so I went with those. Malek installed them at his shop, noting that some of the clips did not go on easily. He did verify that all the clips were seated prior to installing the valve covers and gaskets.

As many other owners did, I began to hear rumblings about some metal VANOS covers coming off and blowing some motors. Much was made about this topic and it seemed as if many of the failed covers were knockoffs from china. However, I also was reading that the problematic covers were coming from almost every manufacturer, mainly the knockoffs and the ones coming from ******. I reached out to Matt personally on August 17th asking if some owners of his covers, or if the posts about the problematic covers overseas were regarding the ****** ones, to which he replied no.

I checked the one accessible cover through the oil fill cap after talking to Matt and I did not see any of the teeth having unclipped themselves. However, after discussing the issue with Malek and going along with his professional opinion, I ordered a set of SLON covers through IND and scheduled a service to have the valve covers pulled to check on the ****** covers. I must emphasize that I only ordered the SLON covers as a precautionary measure. Had the ****** covers been fully seated upon pulling the valve covers, I would have left them and sold the SLON covers here on the forums. Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 covers had 2 or 3 of the teeth come off. I'm not kidding that the one cover that was fully seated was the one I had direct access to through the oil fill cap. Seeing this and with guidance from Malek, he swapped out the ****** covers for the SLON covers. This was finished yesterday, 09/01/23 @ 86k miles.

I highly doubt this is a case of improper installation. Had this been Malek, or any shops first or one of their first attempts at install of metal VANOS covers, this could be a plausible/acceptable explanation for the clips coming undone. However, Malek has done enough of these that I feel confident in ruling out improper install as the culprit. As Redd pointed out in his original post covering this topic: I have no proof but the way I see it, the loose clip allowed the aluminum VANOS cover to vibrate/rub against the steel VANOS gear. This wears down the aluminum hook, which makes the VANOS cover even more loose, and rubs more. After closely inspecting both the SLON and ****** covers and their clips, I want to say this is the most plausible explanation. It must be noted, however, that this is only my assumption and not fact.

I am not trying to tear down or build up anybody in this post. While I had issues with the product I purchased, this may not be true for other owners of this product. My goal with this post is to spread more awareness of the issue. I highly recommend anyone with metal VANOS covers to go through the process of pulling your valve covers and checking each VANOS cover in its entirety. Had I taken the results of the one good cover, the only one I had access to, and applied that to the other 3 covers, my car would have surely grenaded itself by the end of the month. It's better you spend the smaller amount it would be to check your covers than to buy/replace your entire S65.

I don't get why people claim only one cover is possible to check on the passanger side. Assuming everybody have the same size oil fill, its certainly possible to check both cover on right side.

No clue what cover you're refering to here mate, but if its the same producer as others has seen problem with, why not spell it out?

[Frostynorth]

Think he did, the forum has banned the words and replaces it with ***

It’s the group buy guy that got banned, “euro….”

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Think he did, the forum has banned the words and replaces it with ***

It’s the group buy guy that got banned, “euro….”

Still no clue who we're talking about mate, but clearly a scary guy...

[tigermack]

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Think he did, the forum has banned the words and replaces it with ***

It’s the group buy guy that got banned, “euro….”

Same shop as the one with actuators?

[Frostynorth]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Still no clue who we're talking about mate, but clearly a scary guy...

Originally Posted by tigermack

Same shop as the one with actuators?

It's the guy with the Mfactory carbon driveshaft group buy drama. It's difficult to say the exact name due to it being blocked, shoot me a PM if you want exact clarity.

No, not the actuators, as far as I know.


Note: I don't know who made these alleged faulty covers, but who sold 'em is that guy.