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12-01-2008, 07:48 PM | #199 | |
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I think the majority of people refer to the "delay" before the turbo spools as lag. I'm not going go through and count how many times the word lag was used, but obviously it is something to consider in turbo cars. The RPM at which a turbo spools is pretty important stuff. |
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12-02-2008, 12:22 PM | #200 |
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I said it before but no one commented.....the important part when driving an MT is a sharp throttle, I've yet to drive a turboed car that had the pinpoint throttle control that my E46 M3 did. If BMW can achieve that, then I'm all for a Turbo ///M car, but if they can't then it's going to involve a compromise not everyone will be willing to make.
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12-02-2008, 05:14 PM | #201 | ||
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12-02-2008, 05:24 PM | #202 | |
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For those that have "Faith" remember the definition of faith is: (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof
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12-02-2008, 05:53 PM | #203 |
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Listen, this turbo lag is being blown out of all proportions. Who here has driven either a RS6 or a 997tt, I for one have and compared to any other 'turbo' engined car they are both pretty instant on the throttle response. Would it be as instant as a well judge throttle like comes in an M3, probably not but it's not the dreadful thing that some here are saying it is.
For heaven sake I have yet to hear one review complain or make a comment regarding either cars throttle response which proves my point. Anyway there is numerous other advantages of having turbo or supercharging which more than outweigh the minor concerns of a throttle not being as instant as before. P.S. Sticking your head in the sand or your fingers in your ears will not make the inevitable go away, BMW like every other will have to shift to FI in the future. |
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12-02-2008, 06:04 PM | #204 |
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got power?
wow, very good discussion here.
I can't imagine what kind of discussions will take place when cars go electric.....they will, eventually. hopefully I'll live long enough to witness it. |
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12-02-2008, 07:13 PM | #205 | |
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well i for one would have supported that person. unlike pretty much everyone on this forum i actually think its about time BMW got into the "high performance SUV" market and show everyone how its done correctly. |
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12-02-2008, 08:19 PM | #206 |
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I would be fine with that option. Its the right one for a sports car.
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12-02-2008, 09:49 PM | #207 |
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12-02-2008, 10:05 PM | #208 | |
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The RS6 is a wonderful big sedan but certianly not a sports car because of its size & weight and because of the automatic the response issues of a turbo are very well masked and makes this into a extremly competent year round fast sedan.It still has the issue of when it is at high boost levels small changes in the throttle opening make non proportional changes in the power output and this also applies to the 997 TT.I like like the 997TT an aweful lot but if it was my money buying ,it would a new C2s for everyday as I think it is a much more of a drivers car than the TT.I guess that I like having a much more linear power delivery than A FI engine can offer at this point in time. |
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12-02-2008, 10:29 PM | #209 |
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turbo > supercharging any day
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12-02-2008, 10:34 PM | #210 |
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Depends...
Gordon Murray for example believes supercharging makes more sense for a sports car. Hence the choices he made during the development of the SLR. I think the word of the McLraren F1 designer carries some weight. Just depends on the application, motor, etc, lots of variables and goals to take into consideration. |
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12-02-2008, 10:45 PM | #211 | |
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12-03-2008, 02:37 AM | #212 | |
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12-03-2008, 03:50 AM | #213 | |
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I would personally feel happier with a compressor attached to the new M3 than a turbo but I doubt BMW will go that way. |
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12-03-2008, 06:49 AM | #214 |
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However, BMW can enter the high performance SUV market without an X6 M. In fact, they have done it in the past with the X5 4.6si and X5 4.8si. Their official explanation for this was always that an SUV cannot offer all of the characteristics of a vehicle that wears the M badge. So, now they have made an about-face. This essentially means that they have decided that the M brand is too valuable to restrict it to products that meet a certain criteria. Instead, they will loosen their standards and allow more vehicles to be labeled M, even if it means changing the message of the brand. It really is a big turn of events. As I said before, I suspect there is at least one more big "180" coming, and probably more than that. But we'll have to wait and see. And whether these changes mean that much of the current M target market is abandoned in favor of a newer (no doubt larger, either way) one, we cannot yet say.
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12-03-2008, 07:33 AM | #215 |
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Well the V8 TT 450+hp X6 M & X5 M are coming to Australia in 2009, I currently also have a TT Diesel X5 Sports with 600nm, this is my third deisel X5 sports and for me its enough power, damn it does over 200kph and weighs 2 & 1/2 ton, but also gets good fuel economy. The brakes & rotors on my current X5 diesel are larger the current V8 model
I just don't see the need for this powerful SUV with a 450+hp V8 TT, they may sell alot but the price of fuel is going to go back up as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow and there not cheap to run. The diesel has more power than the current V8 X5 and gets twice the fuel economy. The V8 TT X5 might be a big seller in the States but not in Australia. And as for what type of motor will be in the next M3, who knows. I do know that new Audi R8 coming to Australia is going to have the V12 diesel TT option as well as the V10 petrol and there bring in a vert model as well. The V12 diesel is the motor that they raced last year and they say it will have close to 1000nm, who needs a petrol V8 TT, damn that thing will be a monster! So as far as I am thinking my next sports type car will need to be something new, get away from the square box thinking. BMW put a high revving V8 into the M3, that was different to the last M3 (e46) which in turn was different to the previous M3 before that and they are all quite exciting to drive. I am not sure the next M3 will be exciting to drive if it gets heavier and with more weight in the frontend with a slower revving V8 TT. Sounds like the M3 is turning into a AMG and loosing it's track car features which I hope does not happen because to me that's not what a M3 is! In that case they may as well put the M3 badge on the 335 TT or 135 TT!
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12-03-2008, 11:07 AM | #216 | |
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You are talking about the C5 RS6, great car but not nearly as good as the new C6 RS6 with regards to throttle response and power delivery. It in my opinion is much better than the 997tt, it feels instant, not dissimilar to the M3. Admittedly we are talking a very big engine with small turbos which aren't really being worked hard but it's still amazing how linear the delivery of the power is and in no way would you guess it was anyway other than N/A. I don't know if you will get the RS6 in Canada but if it comes I recommend a test drive if only to experience the way it's power is delivered. It and the 335i are two cars which show the how to apply turbos successfully. |
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12-03-2008, 11:20 AM | #217 | |
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12-03-2008, 01:15 PM | #218 | |
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12-03-2008, 01:24 PM | #219 |
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12-03-2008, 04:30 PM | #220 |
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If they do, I want big cheesy TURBO stickers to be standard!
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