|
|
10-29-2010, 07:48 PM | #156 |
Major General
1907
Rep 5,678
Posts |
"Cannot" is a silly comment... of course they "could" if they wished to. The company chooses not to for whatever reason. Maybe there isn't enough profit in it? Maybe they choose to focus their engineering efforts elsewhere.
Do you really think that if the M division set out to build an R8 beater they couldn't do it
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT 2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT 2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 Last edited by gthal; 10-29-2010 at 08:50 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 08:20 PM | #157 |
Colonel
69
Rep 2,194
Posts |
Read my post again... It's 150 hp or so less than my M3... If Im comparing my lap times in my M3 vs the S4. My M3 is not quite stock.
__________________
2012 E92-M3 Space Grey on Fox Red, DCT
2011 B8 S4 S-Tronic , Black on magma red |
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 08:51 PM | #158 |
Major
66
Rep 1,305
Posts |
oh come on!!!....R8 is equivalent of a pig wearing lipstick...sure its pretty and.....ummmm.....hmmmmmm.....its also....ummmm...its a nice looking car!
I KILLED my buddies R8......and when i told him how much I paid.....he was PISSED! now the R8 with the big 10er under the hood....fast as hell.....but how long of a list can we make of cars that are at the same price or cheaper that can out perform it!... R8.....pffft!
__________________
2009 Jet Black E92 M3, DCT, Nav, Novillo Leather, PDC, EDC, BBS CHR's 20", Yokohama Advan Sports Tires, Eiback Pro-Kit Springs, Dinan Pullies and Dinan Stage1 software, black grills, black side gills, alcantara shift and ebrake boot.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 09:58 PM | #159 |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
my point is exclude track pad since every street car will need it to track properly, the m3 engine can withstand 30 laps no problem. the s4 engine will most likely overheat due to that supercharger as evidenced with most FI cars.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 09:59 PM | #160 |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
cannot or don't feel the need to? the m3 is pretty close to the r8 v8 performance wise and it has a real boot and 2 rear seats to boost.
....and just rwd. r8 is meh. if there is anyone out there that can produce a car that can go toe to toe with the best of the best out there, it would be bmw if the m engineer can somehow get past the marketing bone head at bmw. Last edited by graider; 10-29-2010 at 10:10 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 10:00 PM | #161 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
In brief, brakes are a clear problem on the current M3, just as they were on '95 E36 and '04 E46 models that have graced our garage. You are either unfamiliar with track use, or are a beginner, in which case you haven't yet begun to challenge the car. The brake weakness is well known - to people who actually know stuff. People who know what they're doing on track routinely upgrade M3 brakes, because they're not up to multiple hot laps. Period. Beginners won't challenge them, but experienced folks absolutely do. Your assertion about the S4 is ridiculous. At a guess, the Audi will also overcook the brakes when doing multiple hot laps, and also tear up the front sneakers even more than the bimmer, but it's also built to run just as hard and long as the M3 is on the autobahns. At a guess, the only difference will be increased front tire wear. Lastly, I speak for myself, but can represent the "people who know stuff" segment of this forum more often than not. In this case, I represent trackwise folks who know about the traditional M3 moderate brake weakness. Obviously not including yourself, of course. Bruce PS - The Audi S4 is one hell of a car, clearly superior to any 335 iteration, but not able to compete on track or drag strip with the M3. Can't believe it was intended to, either. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 10:10 PM | #162 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
30 laps is arbitrary, but you can get through thirty laps with about any Porsche I know of. The last few will have you backing off if you're a hot shoe, but compared to BMW brakes, they're pure gold. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 10:17 PM | #163 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
And VWs, for that matter. I expect that BMW will get the turbo right with the new M3, but they've certainly gotten egg on the corporate face with the current x35 cars. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 10:35 PM | #164 | |
Lieutenant
24
Rep 472
Posts |
Quote:
But Porsche is not the holy Grail, I have fellow track friends who have issues with the brakes tracking them. GT 911 are the one probably immune |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 11:07 PM | #165 | ||
Banned
51
Rep 1,109
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Even "Toyota" has something that will handle the R8 V10. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 11:21 PM | #166 | |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
Quote:
LFA is god. r8 v10 meh compare to the LFA |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 11:30 PM | #167 | |
Banned
51
Rep 1,109
Posts |
Quote:
The reality is that there is no money in a supercar like the LF A. Lexus is going to lose bucket loads of cash to bring it to market, but they are speculating that they can continue to grow their F division and sell more cars in the long run. That is what BMW and the other Tier 1 brands really need to be concerned about. Audi was at least able to tap their Lambo resources to make the V10 work. If the IS F is this good a competitor in it's first generation and the LF A is as remarkable as it appears Lexus will compete on a much scarier level for the Germans. At this point, BMW is only concerned with selling the most units and making the most money....and as a business this isn't a bad thing. The 328, X1, 128 are examples of this. They are not "true" luxury and are not appealing to true enthusiasts. Being a successful business is not a bad thing at all, but it sure will be interesting to see how the market shapes up over the next few years, as emissions standards and such limit what performance cars can be. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-29-2010, 11:49 PM | #168 | |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
if history repeats itself against as how lexus/toyota gained market share in the auto market, it can get quite interesting in the sport car scene as lexus is no joke if they really serious about it.
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-30-2010, 11:39 AM | #169 | |
Major
66
Rep 1,305
Posts |
Quote:
the LFA was a money loser from the start and Toyota knew that. Although they had each of the 500 units spoken for before it's actual release date, they lost money on every unit....they built it from scratch....no cross platform sharing.....and ten yrs to make! This car was a test bed and now they are going to use this experience, ideas and technologies to build high performance sports cars. Now that this car has been released, received world wide praise from the automotive industry, journalists and the public, no one will be shocked when Lexus builds and releases a high performance sports car. Lets face it....when we all heard that Lexus was going to put up a sports car with a base price of $375,000...how many times did we hear "what were they thinking, who the hell will spend that kind of money on a Lexus??!!!"..."For that money, I would rather buy....." Toyota is a very smart company.....and I personally think we are going to see some outstanding sports cars coming from them in the very near future.
__________________
2009 Jet Black E92 M3, DCT, Nav, Novillo Leather, PDC, EDC, BBS CHR's 20", Yokohama Advan Sports Tires, Eiback Pro-Kit Springs, Dinan Pullies and Dinan Stage1 software, black grills, black side gills, alcantara shift and ebrake boot.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-30-2010, 01:52 PM | #170 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
YMMV. Bruce PS - While we're on the subject, late model Vettes (Z51, Grand Sport) seem to have extremely good track-worthy brakes, as well. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-09-2010, 12:34 AM | #171 |
Grease Monkey
301
Rep 2,646
Posts
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
|
Bruce, for someone that claims to do lots of tracking you don't know much about what causes poor braking performance........ wait for it......... WEIGHT.
There is nothing wrong with the brakes on the M3, actually for a road car or a short track with low speeds they are quite adequate, 14.2" rotors front, 13.8" rotors rear, relatively large pads and good brake torque numbers right out of the box. The car is just to damn heavy, and this is true for many cars today. All of the safety features, and options have added up over the years and weight of cars is creeping up. The 2011 Audi S4 uses 12.6" front rotors and 11.6" rear rotors and sliding calipers........ How well do you think they will take 30 laps carrying 4000 + LBS???? |
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2014, 11:19 AM | #172 |
Second Lieutenant
21
Rep 222
Posts |
Okay... Everyone needs to calm down about Audis not handling. Most new Audis outperform Bmws anyways. Old Bmws were good cars... but now you cannot say their "driver cars". I'm not a pure Audi fanboy or Bmw fanboy, I like both brands equally.
Just wanted to end this B.S about Audis not handling well... |
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2014, 04:04 PM | #174 |
Captain
144
Rep 692
Posts |
__________________
2013 BMW M3 Competition - Gone, But Never Forgotten
2016 Jaguar F-Type S AWD 2016 Land Rover Range Rover Sport Td6 HSE 2017 Porsche Macan Turbo |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|