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12-25-2008, 09:15 PM | #23 |
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I may be biased but I just loved this
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Just thinking of something not so witty ///M3 E92 '09 Jerez Black | 6MT | Ext Fox Red | Tech | Prem | 19s |Heated Seats | iPod |Smartphone | Euro Deliv June 09 Sold: 540iT / 530i / 323i |
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12-25-2008, 09:46 PM | #24 |
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The 997 drivetrain is more efficient but the M3 puts out more RWHP than even the 997S.
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12-26-2008, 08:52 AM | #25 | |
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12-26-2008, 11:33 AM | #26 |
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That's a definite possibility. Who knows how they're geared as well?
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Past: '15 Mustang GT|401A|PP|6MT Current: '20 Shelby GT350|6MT |
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12-26-2008, 01:50 PM | #27 | |
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12-26-2008, 02:23 PM | #29 | |
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Just curious, was your "upgrade" from a 997tt or 996tt? |
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12-26-2008, 02:29 PM | #30 |
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Uh... Check my sig.
Not sure how I could "upgrade" from a 997TT to an M3
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12-26-2008, 02:48 PM | #31 |
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I had no idea if your sig was representative of the 911 turbo that you traded.
Last edited by devo; 12-26-2008 at 03:10 PM.. |
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12-26-2008, 08:58 PM | #32 |
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My initial thoughts above that the power to weight ratios don't justify the observed difference were likely unfounded. Although seemingly a bit contradictory, the achieved performance figures are seen as quite realistic with some CarTest simlation runs. Although the rear weight bias likely helps improve results right from the dig, those results don't show up in simulation, offering only a mere 0.1 s total advantage by 150 mph. However, substituting the M3s worse frontal area and Cd we see a significant difference. Bruce - your guess was spot on. The 911 with the M3s aerodynamics would be 1.8 s slower to 150 mph. I don't believe Stickys speculation that the cars have any significant difference in drivetrain efficiencies, simulations matched these test results quite well with identical total losses 14% (1% auxiliaries, 13% total mechanical). What else is interesting is the difference the hp of the S model will make...
The S will likely achieve 0-60 in under 4, 0-100 in a shade over 9, 0-150 in under 23 and the 1/4 mi in about 12.2@116. It will be quicker all around than the M3, strip and track. But at $90k USD (base price with PDK and nearly no options) I'd still call it a drivers race and quite a poor performance to price ratio compared to the M3. |
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12-26-2008, 10:59 PM | #33 |
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One thing that hasn't been noted is that the P-car was sans the Sport Chrono package. So, those straight line numbers were without launch control. It may have left a few tenths on the table.
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12-27-2008, 12:11 AM | #34 |
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OK I actually read the review and watched that small video. Another silly magazine comparison test (IMO) that tests cars based on price range to show I'm not sure what really to be honest. That you can buy a BMW for the same price as a base/stripped 911 and have close numbers (or same/less/better in some areas/tests) these days? Why not get the 911 then? Less amenities? Less practical? Maybe one doesn't care about that... Or because C&D drivers prefer the BMW's feel? What if you don't? Is that not what it really came down to?
The main thing is that a 911 and an M3 feel COMPLETELY different to drive. They may have similar/close numbers, but they are in a different class, aimed at different buyers (unless it's for buyers looking just at numbers - and who does just that?). I'm not saying one is better than the other (unlike C&D did). So the "winner" is the car YOU prefer to drive, not the one C&D editors prefer. Numbers are half the story. The driving feel is what counts for me (and most people I'd like to think). You want a lighter, sporty feeling car that you can toss around more easily? Get the 911 - any flavor will do. Get a Cayman! You want a car that is a balance between luxury and sport, more practical in terms of space, etc, then get the M3. I did. I wouldn't mind having both though. In fact I would if I could afford it. I can't and need the M3 for now. So the M3 is my "winner" for now, based on my current lifestyle. The 911 will be my "winner" later, just as it was before. Has driving been reduced just to numbers? I can maybe understand it if we had to go racing for a season and had to choose the car with the slighter edge - however tiny. But for everyday/street/ocassional track driving, which is what these cars are really for, the numbers aren't that important. The fun factor is, and the fun factor is not something that can be measured. So I take these comparison tests with a smile. A silly smile. Just give me the numbers, and *I'll* declare the winner. |
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12-27-2008, 12:57 AM | #35 | |
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12-27-2008, 01:23 AM | #36 | |
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12-27-2008, 04:21 AM | #37 | |
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You feel a sports car is solely about performance and essentially about the figures they produce and thus people first and foremost pick a car based on these groups of figures. Only the very shallow ones. Take some examples, an M3 which is probably the most practical sports coupe/saloon current on sale (if you excluded the GTR) and then look at the most basic Lotus Elise. One can pull 100mph in 9.5~10s and is capable (unlimited) of 190mph, while the other is capable 100mph in over 16s and can't quite reach 130mph. Based on the opinion that figures matter most to people then no one in their right mind would pick the Lotus never mind test drive it, but if they ever did make the decision and take that test drive, or better still drive it on a track they would understand completely that pure figures are not really that important as it's the experience that at times can make up for any real performance deficiency. Bang for your buck is not a reason for picking one car over another, if that were true then all of those 335 vs M3 thread would have been correct. Is the Porsche worth all this extra cash? well that is up to the individual and is not something that can be justified on a pure monetary level. |
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12-27-2008, 04:34 AM | #38 | |
My car drones and I LOVE IT!!!
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12-27-2008, 07:56 AM | #39 |
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Very true. Sport Chrono is a must have with PDK. Otherwise the owner is missing a big part of the performance package. Same goes for the turbo. Quite frankly, I can't believe that PAG doesn't make these options standard.
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12-27-2008, 09:54 AM | #40 | |
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Plus if they didn't have these options and packages, Internet forum posters would perhaps cease to argue over their benefits or lack of, etc. Porsche guys arguing over PASM and Sports Chrono, BMW M3 guys arguing over the Tech Package, MDM, EDC, etc. And to have quiet Internet forums would perhaps lead some to boredom, depression, and worse... So PAG, BMW and the rest are doing *humanity* a favor! |
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12-27-2008, 03:21 PM | #41 | |
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There's real value in these kinds of rating schemes. Bruce |
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12-27-2008, 03:47 PM | #42 | |
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12-27-2008, 03:53 PM | #43 | ||
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Let's be honest. The tests are done because these guys have nothing to write about every month (that's "sexy" and sells, like "M3 vs. 911"), the winner thing sounds good all the time, and they need to sell magazines. A better comparison test would be M3 vs. RS4 (maybe the've done that - don't know). M3 vs. 911 is apples to oranges. Some like both, some hate apples, and some hate oranges. Yet both have nutritional value. |
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12-27-2008, 07:07 PM | #44 | |
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